The Upward Spyral

[Texagonian]

Serial killa! On the flip side like you said a bit earlier, you moved a known gal into the rdwc and she’s gonna rip! Those roots were bangin!

 

[spyralout]

Serial killa! On the flip side like you said a bit earlier, you moved a known gal into the rdwc and she’s gonna rip! Those roots were bangin!

I'm pretty sure it's a gal lol. But I thought the other one was too (well at least it was supposed to be). I can't wait to see it take off

 

[SmithsJunk]

I feel like I need a bodybag for all these culls and a bigass rug to rollitup (lol) in then chuck off the golden gate bridge lmao

Dude!, I feel ya. I just had to clip 8 plants that I worked my a$$ off to clone over some bullsh*t child protective services call on my cousin. It seriously sucked taking a knife to 8 fems but it was worth it to protect my monster garden. I may have permanently lost some of those genetics but hopefully I'll get some rogue seeds off the Jack Herer and Banana Crack.

Serial killa! On the flip side like you said a bit earlier, you moved a known gal into the rdwc and she’s gonna rip! Those roots were bangin!

Agreed, that's a sweet root system. Spyro got that sh*t reel tight. I got my outdoor dialed but I gotta get my indoor tuned like his for a stronger start. I'm still way behind a lotta you guys on indoor.

 

[spyralout]

Dude!, I feel ya. I just had to clip 8 plants that I worked my a$$ off to clone over some bullsh*t child protective services call on my cousin. It seriously sucked taking a knife to 8 fems but it was worth it to protect my monster garden. I may have permanently lost some of those genetics but hopefully I'll get some rogue seeds off the Jack Herer and Banana Crack.



Agreed, that's a sweet root system. Spyro got that sh*t reel tight. I got my outdoor dialed but I gotta get my indoor tuned like his for a stronger start. I'm still way behind a lotta you guys on indoor.

Super lame on the 187 man. Those CPS narcs suck, most of the time it's some nosy snowflake who thinks they're better than everyone else. The fire like was for your kind words. I sincerely appreciate that. Always learning and striving for improvements.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Super lame on the 187 man. Those CPS narcs suck, most of the time it's some nosy snowflake who thinks they're better than everyone else. The fire like was for your kind words. I sincerely appreciate that. Always learning and striving for improvements.

Thanks, you've got a gift. I do appreciate the complexity of an indoor grow. Have only grown one indoor set to completion but start all my outdoor inside, under 3x CXB3590's @270w total. As soon as I get my trailer temp under control better in the winter I'll start my indoor again. The cost/harvest ratio is pretty steep but I love the dense flowers with fat crystals. My fall harvest should give me the $$$ to fix my closet and clean up some mold from a water leak near my forced air heater intake. I set up an 800w MPPT solar genny & 300ah 12v SLA batts last spring so my 12v heater will run run all month for only $45 in propane. That solar genny worked out sweet during the Cali blackout.

 

[spyralout]

Thanks, you've got a gift. I do appreciate the complexity of an indoor grow. Have only grown one indoor set to completion but start all my outdoor inside, under 3x CXB3590's @270w total. As soon as I get my trailer temp under control better in the winter I'll start my indoor again. The cost/harvest ratio is pretty steep but I love the dense flowers with fat crystals. My fall harvest should give me the $$$ to fix my closet and clean up some mold from a water leak near my forced air heater intake. I set up an 800w MPPT solar genny & 300ah 12v SLA batts last spring so my 12v heater will run run all month for only $45 in propane. That solar genny worked out sweet during the Cali blackout.

thanks man really. Those crazy redwood sized monsters are impressive, what is your record so far in height? Can't wait to see your indoor setup. The blackout makes me nervous so I need to think about contingency plan (without generator). For the RDWC, battery powered air pumps (the kind they use to ship fish) and harbor freight led's to maintain plant clock cycle. I wouldn't need to recirculate if it's down for a couple days but air is a must. For the F&D I would fill the trays manually, plug the drain for 20 min, then unplug.

 

[SmithsJunk]

thanks man really. Those crazy redwood sized monsters are impressive, what is your record so far in height? Can't wait to see your indoor setup. The blackout makes me nervous so I need to think about contingency plan (without generator). For the RDWC, battery powered air pumps (the kind they use to ship fish) and harbor freight led's to maintain plant clock cycle. I wouldn't need to recirculate if it's down for a couple days but air is a must. For the F&D I would fill the trays manually, plug the drain for 20 min, then unplug.

My tallest so far is this year's Jack Herer at somewhere around 13'-14'. Hard to tell exactly how tall they are cause there's always a storm that lays em over. They get any bigger and I'm gonna need a wooden support trellis to keep em from snapping in half.

Honestly, the least expensive backup for an outage is a gas genny. Solar can get quite pricey once you need anything more than a cellphone charger. No maintenance sealed lead acid batteries like mine run a little over $1 per amp hour and can't be discharged under 50%. So it's really $2 per usable AH. A decent 60A MPPT charge controller is $400-$600, good monocrystalline solar panels run about $1 per watt and are around 50%-75% efficient depending how well their angles are dialed in. You can get 80%+ if they're on a moving sun tracking frame but that's off the hook expensive and cheaper just to buy more panels. A decent 1500w pure sine inverter is around $400-$600. The cables, breakers, splitters, battery switches, mounts, grounding, and tools start adding up quickly as well, especially the mounts and cables. 2awg 60A welding cable for batts is $5/ft, 10awg 30A wire for tray cables and panels is $1.50/ft, and premade angled solar mounts are $50/panel. I've got between $3k-$4k into my 800w off-grid system and I'm really good at getting the most bang for my $$$. I'm maxed out at 800w and if I wanted to make it any bigger I'd have to run a second 30A leg, add a $165 combiner box, a $120 lightening arrestor, and either another charge controller or make it a 24v system. I've skipped, oh so much info, but I just wanted to give you an idea of what you're getting into if you do solar. Not to deter you, cause it's awesome to have on hand when you need it. Unlike a gas genny, it can be used in perpetuity with no more than the cost of replacing the SLA batteries every 3-5yrs (as long as they're maintined at 50%+ charge). Wet deep cycle batts are cheaper and last slightly longer but take maintenance & equalization. Lithium ion batts can run as low as 20% charge with no maintenance and have a much longer life but cost 10x as much as SLAs. Solar beats a gas genny for two big reasons, it can permanently reduce your monthly electricity costs, and it's near silent (except for cooling fans in the charge controller and inverter).

 

[spyralout]

My tallest so far is this year's Jack Herer at somewhere around 13'-14'. Hard to tell exactly how tall they are cause there's always a storm that lays em over. They get any bigger and I'm gonna need a wooden support trellis to keep em from snapping in half.

Honestly, the least expensive backup for an outage is a gas genny. Solar can get quite pricey once you need anything more than a cellphone charger. No maintenance sealed lead acid batteries like mine run a little over $1 per amp hour and can't be discharged under 50%. So it's really $2 per usable AH. A decent 60A MPPT charge controller is $400-$600, good monocrystalline solar panels run about $1 per watt and are around 50%-75% effecient depending how well their angles are dialed in. You can get 80%+ if they're on a moving sun tracking frame but that's off the hook expensive and cheaper just to buy more panels. A decent 1500w pure sine inverter is around $400-$600. The cables, breakers, splitters, battery switches, mounts, grounding, and tools start adding up quickly as well, especially the mounts and cables. 2awg 60A welding cable for batts is $5/ft, 10awg 30A wire for tray cables and panels is $1.50/ft, and premade angled solar mounts are $50/panel. I've got between $3k-$4k into my 800w off-grid system and I'm really good at getting the most bang for my $$$. I'm maxed out at 800w and if I wanted to make it any bigger I'd have to run a second 30A leg, add a $165 combiner box, a $120 lightening arrestor, and either another charge controller or make it a 24v system. I've skipped, oh so much info, but I just wanted to give you an idea of what you're getting into if you do solar. Not to deter you, cause it's awesome to have on hand when you need it. Unlike a gas genny, it can be used in perpetuity with no more than the cost of replacing the SLA batteries every 3-5yrs (as long as they're maintined at 50%+ charge). Wet deep cycle batts are cheaper and last slightly longer but take maintenance & equalization. Lithium ion batts can run as low as 20% charge with no maintenance and have a much longer life but cost 10x as much as SLAs.

Great insight, thank you. All I knew before was it's better to buy than to lease in most cases for the home packages. 1000w+ might make it worth it. More like 5000w would be awesome. I'm pushing well over 3000w and still not done. Would love to find more efficient lights and/or alternative means of energy.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Great insight, thank you. All I knew before was it's better to buy than to lease in most cases for the home packages. 1000w+ might make it worth it. More like 5000w would be awesome. I'm pushing well over 3000w and still not done. Would love to find more efficient lights and/or alternative means of energy.

No problem. Those grid-tied systems are generally 10k+ watts.

The system I'm describing is off-grid and I designed and built it myself. If you want a grid-tied system like you see on everyone's rooves it needs to be setup by a contractor, is more expensive, and to be used during an outage has to be specially designed to disconnect from the grid and only send a charge to it's own batteries. Grid-tied and off-grid systems are completely different animals using different equipment. My opinion is that it's way better to build your own completely self contained off-grid system. Off-grid solar is less regulated, can be built by anyone, and is easily expandable. I do recommend that any expansion to the battery bank be done within it's initial 6 month period or when the batteries are due for replacement. Mixing old and new batteries will cause the new batts to break down quickly.

 

[spyralout]

No problem. Those grid-tied systems are generally 10k+ watts.

The system I'm describing is off-grid and I designed and built it myself. If you want a grid-tied system like you see on everyone's rooves it needs to be setup by a contractor, is more expensive, and to be used during an outage has to be specially designed to disconnect from the grid and only send a charge to it's own batteries. Grid-tied and off-grid systems are completely different animals using different equipment. My opinion is that it's way better to build your own completely self contained off-grid system. Off-grid solar is less regulated, can be built by anyone, and is easily expandable. I do recommend that any expansion to the battery bank be done within it's initial 6 month period or when the batteries are due for replacement. Mixing old and new batteries will cause the new batts to break down quickly.

Makes sense. I love DIY although I'm no pro by any means. Just tenacious when I'm into something lol. I love finding hacks and applying them efficiently. My buddy's dad has a shit ton of solar batteries. Wonder if they're still any good. Maybe worth a shot?

 

[SmithsJunk]

What lights are you running? At 3000w you could have 80ft sq (30 plants) under CXB3590's or Vero29's, and even more under Quantum boards. To make solar cost effective you'll need to upgrade from halogen or cmh lights.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Makes sense. I love DIY although I'm no pro by any means. Just tenacious when I'm into something lol. I love finding hacks and applying them efficiently. My buddy's dad has a shit ton of solar batteries. Wonder if they're still any good. Maybe worth a shot?

I feel ya. I'm the same way and very OCD. When I get into something I exhaustively research it.

Used solar batts might work. Though a used up battery will just tax your system and not hold a decent charge. Batteries are the one component of an off-grid system that can't be skimped on. Unlike a grid-tied system every part of an off-grid system relies on fully functional batts.

 

[spyralout]

Big mish mash. I have 2 viparspectra 600 reflector series (260w from the Wall each) 2 viparspectra PAR 600 (270w). Got them before I knew about "real" LED. 3x 600w HPS. 2x 315w CMH. 5x T5 4ft 4 bulb (not all up and running, that would push me to 4000w). Waiting on parts for a "real" LED build (COBs) to replace the vipars in one tent and move them to another. Eventually take them out of service once I build another set of real LED (qb/strip).
No hydro shop in my area carries cob/qb. They still sell a ton of HPS and the "bigger guys" run CMH. Shit I saw a guy walk out buying a T5 4 ft 4 bulb for $120 wtf lol. I had just grabbed 4 4ft Sun systems for 25 each just to tide me over cuz I veg for only a couple weeks. I try to save money when I can.

 

[BigBallzWillie]

There are more than a couple though. At least 5 different spots so far. At what point do you draw the like?

Sorry to hear they popped some guilloons. Where to draw the line depends what's at risk. I have 2 plants outside now that I yanked after ball display. Plucked em and neither has shown anymore. So I kinda wish I plucked and left them in the tent for the better growth, but I couldn't risk it with another bunch of plants in the same tent. Problem now is, the ones outside might not finish in time.
Just the way it goes sometimes...

 

[SmithsJunk]

Big mish mash. I have 2 viparspectra 600 reflector series (260w from the Wall each) 2 viparspectra PAR 600 (270w). Got them before I knew about "real" LED. 3x 600w HPS. 2x 315w CMH. 5x T5 4ft 4 bulb (not all upnand running, that would push me to 4000w). Waiting on parts for a "real" LED build (COBs) to replace the vipars in one tent and move them to another. Eventually take them out of service once I build another set of real LED (qb/strip).
No hydro shop in my area carries cob/qb. They still sell a ton of HPS and the "bigger guys" run CMH. Shit I saw a guy walk out buying a T5 4 ft 4 bulb for $120 wtf lol. I had just grabbed 4 4ft Sun systems for 25 each just to tide me over cuz I veg for only a couple weeks. I try to save money when I can.

Dang dude, that's a lot of equipment. I understand getting the Vipars. I almost bought blurples before I found COBs. Luckily I started off with the best COB but unfortunately I still got dinked. My first light was a Cree CXB3590 100w but it was on a non-dimmable 67w driver for $150. After completely underestimating it's strength and almost frying a number of seedlings I bought a dimmable, true 200w double CXB fixture that was very successful. Not all COBs are equal. If you're gonna home build I suggest you stick with Cree, Bridgelux, or Citizen. The cheaper COBs aren't much better than blurples and lose a lot of wattage to heat. Also, pay the money for Meanwell drivers if you don't want a potential fire hazard. It would behoove you to purchase a Panda Grow/CF Grow dimmable CXB and open it up to see exactly what you need for components.

CMH are still excellent lights and a good intermediary between halogen and COBs. They are very capable but can tax a solar system.

If you are here in the States you should have no problem getting cheap COB parts. Other places, ie Australia and Canada it can get very expensive.

 

[spyralout]

Sorry to hear they popped some guilloons. Where to draw the line depends what's at risk. I have 2 plants outside now that I yanked after ball display. Plucked em and neither has shown anymore. So I kinda wish I plucked and left them in the tent for the better growth, but I couldn't risk it with another bunch of plants in the same tent. Problem now is, the ones outside might not finish in time.
Just the way it goes sometimes...

Thanks Willie. I decided it wasn't worth the risk and I'm in the position to make adjustments. It was certainly painful to pull that huge ass plant but it was for the better overall. I feel ya on the timing. I'm in that boat except more on the front end when I can't get some beans to pop and have to let them play catch up.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Here are my 100w and 200w CXB3590's open on my bench. I forgot I had pics...

Beats having to buy one to see it's guts.

 

[spyralout]

Dang dude, that's a lot of equipment. I understand getting the Vipars. I almost bought blurples before I found COBs. Luckily I started off with the best COB but unfortunately I still got dinked. My first light was a Cree CXB3590 100w but it was on a non-dimmable 67w driver for $150. After completely underestimating it's strength and almost frying a number of seedlings I bought a dimmable, true 200w double CXB fixture that was very successful. Not all COBs are equal. If you're gonna home build I suggest you stick with Cree, Bridgelux, or Citizen. The cheaper COBs aren't much better than blurples and lose a lot of wattage to heat. Also, pay the money for Meanwell drivers if you don't want a potential fire hazard. It would behoove you to purchase a Panda Grow/CF Grow dimmable CXB and open it up to see exactly what you need for components.

CMH are still excellent lights and a good intermediary between halogen and COBs. They are very capable but can tax a solar system.

If you are here in the States you should have no problem getting cheap COB parts. Other places, ie Australia and Canada it can get very expensive.

Yes Citizen CLU048s
Forgot to mention I have a cheap Roleandro 2 cob I picked up used and it's no slouch. It's heavy (an oldskool indicator for me, heavier power supplies in the PC world are better) and 180w from the wall.
US man. Stupid china tariffs lol
The CMH really impress me. I got a steal of a deal on 2 new ballasts so I made some old hoods work. One is basically vertical bare bulb, already had a run in literally lol. Hoping I'll never have to 'splain to work why I got a dildo shaped burn mark lol

 

[SmithsJunk]

Yes Citizen CLU048s
Forgot to mention I have a cheap Roleandro 2 cob I picked up used and it's no slouch. It's heavy (an oldskool indicator for me, heavier power supplies in the PC world are better) and 180w from the wall.
US man. Stupid china tariffs lol
The CMH really impress me. I got a steal of a deal on 2 new ballasts so I made some old hoods work. One is basically vertical bare bulb, already had a run in literally lol. Hoping I'll never have to 'splain to work why I got a dildo shaped burn mark lol

Oh yeah, I forgot about the frickin Trump Tariffs but judging by the cost of complete CXBs on Amazon it doesn't look like components have increased in price. Still $300 for a 200w. Could be old stock but Amazon sellers are pretty fluid in pricing.

 

[BigBallzWillie]

Yeah, there's a lot of death in farming, lol.