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Punisher84

Just some asshole
So you don't consider whether a person has a right to do something or not, before you endorse it ?

How the fuck, if you don't have a right to do something, could you delegate that nonexistent right to somebody else to do ?
(you won't answer that, because...we know if you don't have a given right, it's impossible to delegate it)

Especially if the right you don't have and are trying to delegate would be asking somebody to take others money against their will.

I mean we at least agree if YOU or I did that, took money under threat of force from people, it would be wrong to do? How does something which is morally wrong for either of us to do, become somehow right for somebody else to do ? Is there like a magic "authority suit" that special people wear to be to able to do that ?

Your last statement is an erroneous assumption. If people retained their money and got to make their own choices how to spend it you would see a booming trade increase in actual goods and services that people want.

Not trying to be rude but your grasp of how actual free trade works seems a little uninformed People don't want to do business under oppressive taxation, it stifles trade. A no tax zone location would be thriving, not third world.
Have you ever been to a shithole country? I think I’ve been to at least a dozen. There is a reason they’re called what they’re called.

They might not have had taxes, instead the government/police/militia just take what they want from you. The people that live there expect it.

I remember working with indig troops, we would pay them, and their leaders would just skim some right off the top of their payday. Just how it works.

I guess that’s an alternative you might consider?
 

Old ST1R

Grow Yer Own Stone
So you don't consider whether a person has a right to do something or not, before you endorse it ?

How the fuck, if you don't have a right to do something, could you delegate that nonexistent right to somebody else to do ?
(you won't answer that, because...we know if you don't have a given right, it's impossible to delegate it)

Especially if the right you don't have and are trying to delegate would be asking somebody to take others money against their will.

I mean we at least agree if YOU or I did that, took money under threat of force from people, it would be wrong to do? How does something which is morally wrong for either of us to do, become somehow right for somebody else to do ? Is there like a magic "authority suit" that special people wear to be to able to do that ?

Your last statement is an erroneous assumption. If people retained their money and got to make their own choices how to spend it you would see a booming trade increase in actual goods and services that people want.

Not trying to be rude but your grasp of how actual free trade works seems a little uninformed People don't want to do business under oppressive taxation, it stifles trade. A no tax zone location would be thriving, not third world.
Name one country that is not a third world country that collects no taxes from its people and is a developed, prosperous nation.
 
D

Deleted member 60

Guest
It's a bitch when you have to grow up and be responsible.....like paying for things you don't use, want, or agree with because it is ethical/needed for others....or even more to the point...it's what you yourself received. Somebody without kids paid to put you through school and taught you how to type your disdain. Get it? Fortunately for you, even though I'm sure they weren't keen on paying your way....they did. Your turn now. STFU, grow up, and get on the ride. The idealism should have been shed when you finally turned off the P4 and came up out of mom's basement and into reality.

Oh...and "Welcome"

 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
[take note of the direct responses]

Question #1 - Yes. But then 4 years later, with new elected officials, that 'something' was repealed. Conversely, things I have supported have also been repealed. I cried no tears, wailed no wails. The old lady won't do everything every way I'd prefer, but overall she's a peach.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate your being direct with a well organized, but in some instances, inaccurate response.

I hope to get to each response and your questions for me throughout the day. I had planned to work on a vehicle outdoors today in between any rain showers., so the answers may be intermittent. (that's a rain shower pun)

She's a peach eh? Did you mean a rotten peach?

So, for the last 50 years or so, I've enjoyed a little cannabis now and then. I had hoped that prohibition would have been repealed, by "the next politician" for some of that 50 years. Hasn't happened yet. Please don't point to "but but it's legal now" and the prohibition light that exists in some places as instances of "how the voting process works". That's kind of lame, since it's turned what is your right into a limited and revocable privilege, that can and is used against people all the time.

In that time millions of people have been and continue to be arrested, had their property stolen, many people were shot/murdered, beaten, had their children stolen and/or were thrown in jail, some for years and a few for life.

Is it "peachy" that the United States has the highest prison population in the world ? I don't think so. Would you say that Prohibition was (is) a failure of government to protect our rights ?

I could go on, especially about foreign wars and the federal reserve scam, among other things but I'm anxious to get to the rest of your post, so I'll leave you with an Einstein quote
1594736592892.png
 

hhibrownsbacker

Super Active Member
In the first place you dont have a right to smoke dope. You do have a choice though. All this talk of prohibition is garbage also. Hey man, if you cant or dont want to do the time, don't do the crime. It has nothing to do with rights, its about choices. I also have been smoking herb for 50+ years and not once, have I ever thought it was my right to. You also say dont point to the fact that its legal now, well why not, it is legal now in many places and each year it gets less restricted. Just because it doesnt fit into your narrative doesnt make it not a fact.
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Question #2 - Yes. If we are elected by a majority of voters that vote, operating a [hopefully] effective and efficiently ran municipality is our job. If we do it well, we're likely re-elected, or nominated for a higher position.

Thank you answering this question. It's the one I'm most interested in explicating. As an aside, I don't mean to insult your intelligence with this example either, most people haven't given this one the thought it deserves.

I'll just be blunt here. The evidence concludes you're wrong and your example doesn't prove your point, it disproves it.

You, nor anybody can delegate a right they don't possess. It's impossible.

I'll use words and simple math to prove it too. If you're stubborn and my words don't convince you, the math (below) should, unless you wish to argue that 0 + 0 = 1 or something foolish like that.

You've attempted to point at the existing political voting process as evidence that a right which isn't possessed by one person can be delegated to other people. The existing political process doesn't provide evidence a nonexistent right can be delegated, it does the opposite, it proves government tramples rights and subjugates rights, (steals them) at least in some if not most instances.

It's a fact that Government holds the default position that "the people" consent to it, even when some don't and expressly say so. It's also a fact that, Government's default position of assuming consent when none is given is an instance of attempting to change the meaning of a word, "because we're government". Cute Government, I see what you did there.

If you, as an individual don't possess something, in this case a right to do x, that means your doing it would be outside your rights.

For instance I have no right to come up and whip your ass, if you've done no harm to me. I have no right to attempt to give your consent either, since doing so would pervert the meaning of the word "consent" into something else. Consent, by it's meaning is tied to the subject person, not to other people, no matter how many other people there are ,who wish you consented or "voted" that you consented when you actually didn't.

Repeat...None of us can give another persons consent for them and none of us can truthfully say we have that consent especially if that person has made it clear they DO NOT CONSENT. Words have meaning, and to change the meaning of a word simply because you are more powerful than the person you wish to subjugate is a perversion. Don't be a word pervert, like Government is.

If as many government documents claim, "all men are created equal" etc. that would mean no person has a lesser or a greater right to do the things they can rightfully do than another person ("man") Everyone is equal in that regard. The corollary to that is, NO person has any right to do the things they have NO right to do. If they do, it violates the meaning of the word "equal".

Now, neither of us is so naive to believe that rights aren't violated all the time by government, which leads me to the math example which should clear up any remaining misconceptions you imagine.

Hey...here's the math !! Have fun!!

If you, or any person doesn't possess a right to do something, that would be expressed as zero, as in "zero right" to do X.

If you have zero right to do something, that right is nonexistent. That's what zero means. Johnny has zero apples, therefore Johnny can't give his imaginary apple to Tommy.

If you have zero right to do something, say away another persons property without their consent, and all other people are equal to you, (government proclaims this is true!!) then no other person(s) could possibly have that right either.

Since you have zero right to do something and no other "equal person(s)" have that right either, you would be in a group of people all having zero right to do a particular thing. By virtue of being equal, none of us has greater or less rights than others. That's what "equal" means.

When you add your zero right to do something and all the other persons zero right to do the same thing, you would come up with a pile of zero right.

0+0+0+0+0+0+0 and on and on still equals what? Zero.

How can you create a right that doesn't exist by voting? You can't, because in that instance aggregating by voting, a pile of zeroes (zero right to do something) doesn't magically change the zero right each person began with.

So, do you think an accumulation of zeroes, a fucking mountain of zeroes, a plethora, a veritable landslide of zeroes, a kazillion million billion zeroes all added up is anything more than zero ?

If you do, could you show me the math ?
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Hey guys, I hope to get to each of your comments, but first I'll be giving attention to @ Whip Eurass, since he put together a nice organized reply and I want to give him the respect of a response to each of his comments.

As an aside, I want you all to know I think conversation is good and appreciate your interest in discussion. Also, I apologized to High Kev for inadvertently hi jacking the thread and he's cool with the conversation, in case anyone was wondering.

It's raining here, so I'm just gonna roll a fattie and keep on shucking and jiving. Didn't really want to work on my truck today anyway. ;)
 

High kev

Yankee seeds
Breeder
The convo is very interesting. everyone bringing up good points. I never really thought or sat down and had convos with people on this topic so I’m learning a lot. Time to roll some joints from my stash as study this threadB4291F0A-C5DA-4516-8BA2-4177D20D6147.gifBD75D9BF-7577-41B1-A8F6-ABB2809B2B38.gif276D2435-2E62-4358-8C8B-26F3B9F4588B.gifD663DA74-7CFD-4018-97E1-C84797916017.gif898C1607-7744-4DB1-8272-E3B1418EFF42.gif
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Question #1 - Name the place - besides in your imagination - a real place that exists or has existed - that operates[ed] successfully using your ... 'ideas'.
I'll assume your question is about how / where does interacting on a voluntary and consensual basis work, since that's really the basic philosophy I'm pushing. The answer is simple, it's all over the place, despite Government.

It works in your bedroom or at least for your partners sake I hope it does. Millions of people fuck on a consensual basis everyday and millions more wish they did.

I bet we both agree the ones who bang somebody on a consensual basis are the ones doing it right and the ones who don't care about others consent are doing it wrong ?

Millions of people engage in consensual trade everyday, when you go to a grocery store, (even though they are somewhat restricted by government bullshit) or a yard sale or to visit the local pot dealer, they all make an offer to sell / trade you something.

You can buy it, not buy it or seek a similar product elsewhere. They don't chase you down the street and force you to buy something though do they? Those interactions are consensual and voluntary aren't they ?

I could go on, but I think the examples above illustrate my point, that billions of people ALREADY interact on a voluntary and consensual basis, the only thing which usually PREVENTS them from doing it more.....is government.
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Qustion #2 - Since you've explained your 'ideas' a few hundred times, and in great detail.....why do you suppose that no one has jumped onboard the 'Rogue Train'? At one point do you see yourself becoming.....'persuasive'?

That's a good question. I'm going to come back to this one, since it deserves a good response.
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
In the first place you dont have a right to smoke dope. You do have a choice though. All this talk of prohibition is garbage also. Hey man, if you cant or dont want to do the time, don't do the crime. It has nothing to do with rights, its about choices. I also have been smoking herb for 50+ years and not once, have I ever thought it was my right to. You also say dont point to the fact that its legal now, well why not, it is legal now in many places and each year it gets less restricted. Just because it doesnt fit into your narrative doesnt make it not a fact.
I feel bad that you look to others for permission to exercise a right.

If all people ("men...according to government) are equal your post couldn't possibly be right. I think all people have the same rights, that of peaceful self determination. Even agents of the government have admitted that before they shit all over it.

Here's a passage from the Declaration of Independence, which is just being redundant to reality, that's why those 3 cornered hat guys said it was "
self evident". Also many States contradictorily list your "rights" in their Constitutions, usually under a bill of rights etc. and then in every one of them, they proceed to remove those rights, by force, court reinterpretations etc.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

I absolutely have the right to smoke dope. I have the right to lick it, fuck it, stick it up my ass (never did any of that in case you're wondering) , grow it, possess it and burn it. I'm not recommending you stick weed up your ass, or continue to keep your head up there regarding what your rights are either.

I'd venture you might think rights come from government or some other nonsense. They don't, those are revocable privileges, not rights. You are born with rights, if other people take them away or subjugate them (government) that only further proves my point.

It is legal now, in some places, if you have "permission" and only grow or possess the amount the overlords let you have. Whoop de doo! We're free!!! Not.

If all people are equal, how could any person get the right to prevent you from having something or have the power or
the ability to "let" you have something. That is evidence that all people couldn't be equal and you've been lied to.
 

hhibrownsbacker

Super Active Member
I dont know Rogue, I think allot of this is pretty much a difference of opinion of what a right is. All of which Im done discussing with you. In any event this is a democracy and whether you like it or not, the majority rules. Im sure you can find examples where you state that majority rules dont work, but all in all, it works pretty damn good and since you havent demonstrated not one actual example of your theorys working on anything other than a back yard cookout I'd say the odds are stacked against you ever convincing people otherwise. I would say to keep fighting your fight but I cant see you ever winning it and wouldnt want you to waste your time. You might consider buying a island where you will be the only resident because until you can do whats best for the whole rather than just for yourself, you are not gonna find what youre looking for.
 

gwheels

Hobby Farmer
In the first place you dont have a right to smoke dope. You do have a choice though. All this talk of prohibition is garbage also. Hey man, if you cant or dont want to do the time, don't do the crime. It has nothing to do with rights, its about choices. I also have been smoking herb for 50+ years and not once, have I ever thought it was my right to. You also say dont point to the fact that its legal now, well why not, it is legal now in many places and each year it gets less restricted. Just because it doesnt fit into your narrative doesnt make it not a fact.
Well where i live....it is my RIGHT. I excercise it daily.

The right to walk anywhere there is not a no smoking restriction...i can smoke a blunt. It started with a dog walker of modest size...now they take 20 minutes to smoke and i put them out in the tray on the front porch. I am going for walks without the dog because i love going for a walk...or smoking a blunt or both!

The prescription gives me a broader range of rights...like carry amount on your person (i think mine is 5 oz.) and normal is 1) after that it is a ticket or something.

And the RIGHT to grow 4 plants to every Canadian excluding 3 weird exceptions. I would move from any of them anyway.

Canada screwed a lot of it up but they got the grow your own right. DO EEET..

This is as far as i wade into this topic of great debate.

Time will sort it out.

The right part is a fact...it is written into law and is legally binding. It is why i can put those stinky ass GMO cake right on my property line and my neighbor can like it or lump it. They have no right to stop me.
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Name one country that is not a third world country that collects no taxes from its people and is a developed, prosperous nation.
Name one country the United States wouldn't invade or fuck with via trade sanctions etc. if invading would be too costly (Russia, China) using your tax money if that country tried to get people to stop using the U.S. dollar !

"Name one country that doesn't have slavery or burn witches ! Everyone knows that's never gonna stop!! " - OldST1R's great great etc grandfather in 1632

"Flying machines!!!?? You Wright brothers are fucking lunatics! - Some guy on a horse in 1900

"Communicators ?? Yeah right that shit only happens in Star trek!! " - You, as a kid in 1968 before cell phones
 

hhibrownsbacker

Super Active Member
Doesn't that happen here though?
:DIt dont happen where I live. The police have never taken anythng from me, The militia has never taken anything from me, The Government has never taken anything from me. I have given to the government thru taxation but it wasnt taken from me, it was offered willingly. I dont know where the fuck you live but I dont want to live there.:poop:
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
because it is ethical/needed for others.
This implies that you think it is ethical for other people to determine the use of your property and that "charity" is the right word to use, when other people forcibly redistribute your property based on their wishes and not yours.

Okay, if that's your philosophy, hypothetically speaking if I know of a person that has no weed, and sneak into your wonderful garden (you do a nice job growing) and redistribute the weed you're growing to satisfy my wishes, while disregarding your wishes, you're cool with that ?
 
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