Real Science with Dr. Bruce Bugby

[m4s73r]

Right - but the entire process of living soil is feeding the microbes. You don't feed the plants. EVER. yet they grow. Feeding the microbes IS the ballgame. Discounting that simple fact - or glossing over it to prove some other point is when I knew he had an agenda of some sort - or wasn't as smart as he thinks he is.

Hold on, adding compost is feeding the microbes. Microbes still break down composts. Thats why so many people top dress EWC. Compost still requires decomposition to break organic mater. The point he was making is that continually adding compost from animals is high in Phosphorus and can damage the environment around it. And over time too much can cause bad things to the soil. This is why you wont see gardeners dumping bags and bags of compost on outdoor raised beds. Its leaves that are piled on. Not animal compost. This is also why i dont just use EWCs only in my beds. I cut it with mushroom compost.

Hell, I ain't trying to steer anything. Your living soil is only good as long as your "microbe balance" is in correct ratios, and the right microbes are there to start with.
You'll find out one day when they get way out of balance or somehow you get invasions of critters you don't know are in there and everything starts going to shit and you have to toss all of it away and start from scratch. I know you guys are on top of the organics, it's great when it's great.
When it's not, it's a major "dick punch".

This is true but takes time to really fuck it up. Most people will fuck their soilless mixes up from all the top dressings they do. they keep adding compost and amendments over and over. They never throw on some leaf mulch, perlite, or anything. Well if you start at a 1 part peet, 1 part compost, 1 part aeration and top dress for a year well now you got some heavy ass pots full of compost and not enough peat/aeration. This is why earthbox guys have to dump every 3rd or 4th run. Eventually its all compost. It is very hard to get the bacteria and fungi out of balance. You have to almost intentionally be trying to do this. This is why I preach mulching leaf material rather then top dressing dry amendments and EWC.

The only time I would ever throw out a soiless mix is if someone salted it. But I have been doing this for awhile.

Hell ya man. My basement is full of BAS shit. I started with straight FFOF at first, but I've added tons of other things. I knew it was gonna be a challenge starting out with the no-till mentality, and I wasn't wrong. But I'm learning constantly, and am always trying new things.

Never had any burning with my bat guano's, but I have with the seabird guano for instance. I precook top dressing sometimes. And that stuff actually can get hot to the touch depending on what you use. I've measured like 106 degrees F before, but it can get hotter I'm sure.

If it's something that I know gets hot like that, is when I pre-cook it for a few days until it cools down.

So is my basement. BAS is just so convenient. LOL.

 

[m4s73r]

@NoWaistedSpace Have you watched any of the Build A Soil 10x10 Series?

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

I think when he was against organics at the start set the organic growers off and closed their minds.
My point was "shit can happen" in organics.
I'll make this plain and simple,
It's about when and how much to apply in every aspect of growing.

 

[H.A.F.]

Hold on, adding compost is feeding the microbes. Microbes still break down composts. Thats why so many people top dress EWC. Compost still requires decomposition to break organic mater. The point he was making is that continually adding compost from animals is high in Phosphorus and can damage the environment around it. And over time too much can cause bad things to the soil. This is why you wont see gardeners dumping bags and bags of compost on outdoor raised beds. Its leaves that are piled on. Not animal compost. This is also why i dont just use EWCs only in my beds. I cut it with mushroom compost.

I mainly use the castings at transplant. My 'out of the rotation' soil gets castings added a few weeks before I pot seedlings. I have tried adding some to the bottom of a solo cup of starter soil for seeds and that workes well. My main top dressing is their craft blend. I use sprouted seed teas as the only real "directed" feeding based on veg or flower.

I chop-n-drop the cover crops, and chop up pruned leaves as well, unless it's a large defoliation. That's when the worm bin gets it.

There's also a little kelp, some insect frass, and some crustacean meal, none from my yard. I plan to grow some corn, barley, and alfalfa in patches outside just to let go to seed so I can self sustain that. But I have no problem buying stuff. As long as it's the right stuff.

 

[H.A.F.]

I think when he was against organics at the start

I think when he was (as you saw as well) against organics he decided to become the grow God and exposed an agenda. I have no clue what that agenda is, but I am smart enough to argue both sides of an argument. Of course doing organic is going to be more work at large scale, etc. etc.

If you like the terps you get when walking through the Scotts aisle at the hardware store then we can't agree on the best way to grow weed that we are going to smoke.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Hold on, adding compost is feeding the microbes. Microbes still break down composts. Thats why so many people top dress EWC. Compost still requires decomposition to break organic mater. The point he was making is that continually adding compost from animals is high in Phosphorus and can damage the environment around it. And over time too much can cause bad things to the soil. This is why you wont see gardeners dumping bags and bags of compost on outdoor raised beds. Its leaves that are piled on. Not animal compost. This is also why i dont just use EWCs only in my beds. I cut it with mushroom compost.



This is true but takes time to really fuck it up. Most people will fuck their soilless mixes up from all the top dressings they do. they keep adding compost and amendments over and over. They never throw on some leaf mulch, perlite, or anything. Well if you start at a 1 part peet, 1 part compost, 1 part aeration and top dress for a year well now you got some heavy ass pots full of compost and not enough peat/aeration. This is why earthbox guys have to dump every 3rd or 4th run. Eventually its all compost. It is very hard to get the bacteria and fungi out of balance. You have to almost intentionally be trying to do this. This is why I preach mulching leaf material rather then top dressing dry amendments and EWC.

The only time I would ever throw out a soiless mix is if someone salted it. But I have been doing this for awhile.


So is my basement. BAS is just so convenient. LOL.

And local, at least to me. So shipping is cheaper than farther away. I've just started messing with the Organics Alive stuff, and that bloom stuff at 1/4 tsp per gal, I can see a little pistil burn in a spot or two on one of the plants. I just thought I'd mess around with it since it was on sale for Black Friday. I see potential with it for it when you need a quick reacting dose of organic nutes. But I've just begun testing it, so I can't say anything for sure yet.

Oh, but like Gremlins, keep it away from moisture. It's hygroscopic.

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

I get pretty much the same results with Miracle Grow and Peters and a few other things.
It's a whole process from seed to curing to get the best product.
Hell, Heisen uses Dynagrow products and look what he produces.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

I think when he was against organics at the start set the organic growers off and closed their minds.
My point was "shit can happen" in organics.
I'll make this plain and simple,
It's about when and how much to apply in every aspect of growing.

What originally turned me a little off, was a couple years ago when I saw him comparing lights, but using some plastic shit over them.

He's definitely a smart guy though. And a lot of what he says I agree with.

 

[H.A.F.]

And local, at least to me. So shipping is cheaper than farther away. I've just started messing with the Organics Alive stuff, and that bloom stuff at 1/4 tsp per gal, I can see a little pistil burn in a spot or two on one of the plants. I just thought I'd mess around with it since it was on sale for Black Friday. I see potential with it for it when you need a quick reacting dose of organic nutes. But I've just begun testing it, so I can't say anything for sure yet.

This is where I can see some parts of Korean Natural Farming adding benefit. Lactic acid bacteria and fermented plant stuff are side projects you can do to get some concentrated (maybe a tsp/g) plant food. I have fermented aloe so far, and am trying it with a culled whole plant right now. Roots to tips.

 

[m4s73r]

I think when he was against organics at the start set the organic growers off and closed their minds.
My point was "shit can happen" in organics.
I'll make this plain and simple,
It's about when and how much to apply in every aspect of growing.

Yeah. The organic guys can be touchy. I get into straight rage fests with people on facebook when I got some organic grower in too small of a pot with no mulching plan and I tell them to throw some nutrients on it. LOL. Oh newbies. I forgive you.

I think when he was (as you saw as well) against organics he decided to become the grow God and exposed an agenda. I have no clue what that agenda is, but I am smart enough to argue both sides of an argument. Of course doing organig is going to be more work at large scale, etc. etc.

If you like the terps you get when walking through the Scotts aisle at the hardware store then we can't agree on the best way to grow weed that we are going to smoke.

Well if there was a Cannabis Grow God, Dr Bugbee would be on the list of candidates. You can see a list of his accomplishments Here. But I'm a science guy and I follow the science. Peer reviewed, published work.

 

[H.A.F.]

Top dressing bokashi to help with the composting in the pot helps too.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

This is where I can see some parts of Korean Natural Farming adding benefit. Lactic acid bacteria and fermented plant stuff are side projects you can do to get some concentrated (maybe a tsp/g) plant food. I have fermented aloe so far, and am trying it with a culled whole plant right now. Roots to tips.

The organic stuff is interesting to me. I've just got this too that I'll try soon, but just a tiny bit. Especially at first. I thought I'd try a tiny bit to my 7.8 water alone and see how much it lowers the pH. Citric is strong as hell, and my initial guess is it will be similar, but maybe not as strong. Don't know yet, but I like to experiment.

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[H.A.F.]

Well if there was a Cannabis Grow God, Dr Bugbee would be on the list of candidates. You can see a list of his accomplishments Here. But I'm a science guy and I follow the science. Peer reviewed, published work.

So when he and the PhD's in living soil stuff are diametrically opposed, where do you go?

Peer reviewed, when there is little or no federally funded research into any field of science is always based on sample size. If 75% of scientists agree, but in reality you are talking about 6 out of 8 people...

He mentions he got funding from a light company - investigate and see who else funded his research. All research is directed - it must have a goal.

You and I can both be scientifically right on a topic and have two different opinions.

 

[H.A.F.]

The organic stuff is interesting to me. I've just got this too that I'll try soon, but just a tiny bit. Especially at first. I thought I'd try a tiny bit to my 7.8 water alone and see how much it lowers the pH. Citric is strong as hell, and my initial guess is it will be similar, but maybe not as strong. Don't know yet, but I like to experiment.

I think some companies are doing the teas and ferments and stuff at a large scale and selling it - don't know about your specific product but I think that stuff is cool. If someone will buy it - sell it! People that want to do stuff but don't have the time or space is a good target consumer group.

 

[H.A.F.]

Who else is really high right now - be honest!

 

[m4s73r]

So when he and the PhD's in living soil stuff are diametrically opposed, where do you go?

Peer reviewed, when there is little or no federally funded research into any field of science is always based on sample size. If 75% of scientists agree, but in reality you are talking about 6 out of 8 people...

He mentions he got funding from a light company - investigate and see who else funded his research. All research is directed - it must have a goal.

You and I can both be scientifically right on a topic and have two different opinions.

Oh I dont reference him for Living soil stuff. I reference him in environmental stuff. As for the research there is TONS of it in hemp. A lot of that translates right over to cannabis. They are cousins after all.

He's the founder of Apogee. The company that all these LED guys are using to test lights. NASA Funds him. End goal is growing crops on Mars I think.

 

[m4s73r]

Who else is really high right now - be honest!

Oh I hit some hash when I started this LOL

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Yeah. The organic guys can be touchy. I get into straight rage fests with people on facebook when I got some organic grower in too small of a pot with no mulching plan and I tell them to throw some nutrients on it. LOL. Oh newbies. I forgive you.


Well if there was a Cannabis Grow God, Dr Bugbee would be on the list of candidates. You can see a list of his accomplishments Here. But I'm a science guy and I follow the science. Peer reviewed, published work.

Hahaha. Kinda goes both ways though, lol. My hydro guy got really offended when he was saying I needed to clean all the pots and everything between round, and I said "What about no-till." He made a smartass comment that I must know everything and walked back in the back room. I waited until he came back out to get the shit I came for But I can't help myself when it comes to shit like that, so let's just say I spoke my mind when he came back out. The Fed-Ex guy came in and left, trying to stay out of the way, lol. Everyone knows my name there now and is super friendly when I walk in, lol.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Oh I dont reference him for Living soil stuff. I reference him in environmental stuff. As for the research there is TONS of it in hemp. A lot of that translates right over to cannabis. They are cousins after all.

He's the founder of Apogee. The company that all these LED guys are using to test lights. NASA Funds him. End goal is growing crops on Mars I think.

Nasa funds him, for real? That would give him bonus points in my feeble mind.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Who else is really high right now - be honest!

Is that a serious question?