D.I.Y. LED component suppliers (US)
For the profit margin im not really that concerned with efficiency that much other than the huge leap from HIDs.
nu-be
Active Member
On topic, Arrow is probably the best place to buy this stuff in North America if you can hit their sales and use their 15% off coupons. The coupons don't apply to everything, so be careful when checking out, and contact customer service to get them to apply coupons to the whole purchase. Digikey is good, but more expensive.
Off topic, If you have them bought and paid for, Cree / Vero / Citizen COBs are still good lights. However, if you're building new, COBs currently represent the lower end of the DIY LED price/performance scale, similar to HLG kits. Both of these options suffer from a number of issues that you don't have with the best options on the market - cost, canopy coverage & uniformity, cooling, ppf/dollar in a given spectrum. Don't get me wrong - I own COBs - but if you can DIY, they're not the best option anymore. Nor is an HLG QB build. DIY LED strip or low density midpower diode boards offer significantly better cost/benefit analysis in all measures.
And let's be careful about how we talk about lights these days. Wattage is almost irrelevant, as are lumens or lux, and the mythical "penetration" metric that bro-scientists love so much. "HEHEHE HE SAID PENETRATION HEHEHE." /derp. We need to speak in terms of PPF and PPF/watt and ppfd. In layman's terms, we want the highest amount of photons hitting our canopy, in a generally-good spectrum, produced by the fewest watts of energy, at the lowest cost. Almost all other metrics used to measure and describe lighting options are irrelevant, IMHO.
Don't be short-sighted. Consider both up front costs and total cost of ownership, and calculate your ROI. $550 USD including shipping to build a strip LED build that will cover a 4x4 perfectly is not much more out of pocket than a $300 medium-end 1000w HPS, especially considering energy savings from the light, cooling & ventilation, and bulb replacements every 4-6mo. In most places around the country, even if you have cheap electric, you get a ROI from LED in 15mo or less. And consider that these LEDs have almost no reduction in output after 10 years, maybe 10% at most.
As long as you're close to 3000k using current or last generation midpower white diodes from Samsung, Nichia, and to a lesser degree Cree and Osram, you don't need to dick around with alternative spectrums, red, UV, any of that. Those things only add complexity and cost to a build, and they generally lower your lighting solution's efficiency in most cases. You don't need 4000k or 5000k for vegging. The benefit from any of that stuff is probably negligible, at best. Almost none of the benefits of those addons or alternative spectrums are actually scientifically proven, and none that I've seen have been repeated with additional scientific research. So Emersen effects, Ebner, dawn and dusk simulation, far red supplementation, they're all just anecdotal and not worth your money.
TL;DR: The takeaway is don't fall for snake oil claims. Look at the data. Educate yourself and ask questions before buying.
The LEDGardener.com website DIY builds and forums are fucking awesome for this type of discussion. People will walk you through it, start to finish.
Off topic, If you have them bought and paid for, Cree / Vero / Citizen COBs are still good lights. However, if you're building new, COBs currently represent the lower end of the DIY LED price/performance scale, similar to HLG kits. Both of these options suffer from a number of issues that you don't have with the best options on the market - cost, canopy coverage & uniformity, cooling, ppf/dollar in a given spectrum. Don't get me wrong - I own COBs - but if you can DIY, they're not the best option anymore. Nor is an HLG QB build. DIY LED strip or low density midpower diode boards offer significantly better cost/benefit analysis in all measures.
And let's be careful about how we talk about lights these days. Wattage is almost irrelevant, as are lumens or lux, and the mythical "penetration" metric that bro-scientists love so much. "HEHEHE HE SAID PENETRATION HEHEHE." /derp. We need to speak in terms of PPF and PPF/watt and ppfd. In layman's terms, we want the highest amount of photons hitting our canopy, in a generally-good spectrum, produced by the fewest watts of energy, at the lowest cost. Almost all other metrics used to measure and describe lighting options are irrelevant, IMHO.
Don't be short-sighted. Consider both up front costs and total cost of ownership, and calculate your ROI. $550 USD including shipping to build a strip LED build that will cover a 4x4 perfectly is not much more out of pocket than a $300 medium-end 1000w HPS, especially considering energy savings from the light, cooling & ventilation, and bulb replacements every 4-6mo. In most places around the country, even if you have cheap electric, you get a ROI from LED in 15mo or less. And consider that these LEDs have almost no reduction in output after 10 years, maybe 10% at most.
As long as you're close to 3000k using current or last generation midpower white diodes from Samsung, Nichia, and to a lesser degree Cree and Osram, you don't need to dick around with alternative spectrums, red, UV, any of that. Those things only add complexity and cost to a build, and they generally lower your lighting solution's efficiency in most cases. You don't need 4000k or 5000k for vegging. The benefit from any of that stuff is probably negligible, at best. Almost none of the benefits of those addons or alternative spectrums are actually scientifically proven, and none that I've seen have been repeated with additional scientific research. So Emersen effects, Ebner, dawn and dusk simulation, far red supplementation, they're all just anecdotal and not worth your money.
TL;DR: The takeaway is don't fall for snake oil claims. Look at the data. Educate yourself and ask questions before buying.
The LEDGardener.com website DIY builds and forums are fucking awesome for this type of discussion. People will walk you through it, start to finish.
Hydro
PICK YOUR OWN
I equate led lighting to new phones. Its over priced and antiquated before you even take it out of the box and virtually no different from the last phone you overpaid on and have now just upgraded. No sooner than I'll do a strip build or 2 there will be the "next best thing" to make whatever I just did antiquated. Technology moves faster than the reduction of price points. Im too frugal to try and keep up with the Jones' lol.
@HydroRed @WhyteWidow would you guys be willing to moderate this section to add stickys, and edit the threads so you guys can edit the first post and include a list? I know its gonna be hard to go through entire threads but with admin privelage you will be able to edit any post without a time limit. This section seems to be taking off and needs 2 mods to be able to do that,.
WhyteWidow
Led Tech
Yeah I'm down.
nu-be
Active Member
This is why I recommend the 42" Sammy lm561c S6 strips right now if you can find them at good prices. Last gen's tech at cheap prices with only a *maybe* 5-7% difference in efficiency compared to the latest and greatest, and they don't need heatsinks, only u-channel as a mounting surface. However, the 561c are still 15-20% more efficient than COBs, and generally cheaper and better spread, so yeah.
Highsince76
Super Active Member
I used Digi-key in Deceber. Fast shipping and good service. There website sucks to navigate though, and prices have went up since then I understand (tariff).
I purchased 24 -1' Bridgelux gen. 2 strips and driver for $191 including shipping and tax. That particular build is recommended for covering a 3' x 3' area @ 270 watts @ full power.
It was all ordered, wired by following plans on ledgardner.com.
They have quite a few different size/coverage plans on there site. I highly recommend visiting there site if your interested in a diy build.I purchased 24 -1' Bridgelux gen. 2 strips and driver for $191 including shipping and tax. That particular build is recommended for covering a 3' x 3' area @ 270 watts @ full power.
It was all ordered, wired by following plans on ledgardner.com.
The build plans use Samsung and Bridgelux strips and Mean well drivers. Gives you model numbers, parts numbers, wire sizes, wiring diagrams, etc. They also list prices (which now are outdated mainly due to tariff increases).
http://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/
This was my first strip build, and if this old fart can do it, I'm sure most here could.
But if not comfortable with it, I have read WhyteWidow builds a good light.
But if not comfortable with it, I have read WhyteWidow builds a good light.
shimz
vapest
I wish there was an applause button for @nu-be 's tome. Very well put, sir! Kinda sums up the current situation.
I think the denser current LED tech has its place in amongst the vaulted strips, though. In my opinion those can be driven harder, giving up some of the efficiency afforded by LED itself to hang high and gain some, yes, penetration for those who wish to grow trees. It's a real thing, penetration....
I think the denser current LED tech has its place in amongst the vaulted strips, though. In my opinion those can be driven harder, giving up some of the efficiency afforded by LED itself to hang high and gain some, yes, penetration for those who wish to grow trees. It's a real thing, penetration....
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WhyteWidow
Led Tech
You gotta watch the driver selection for bridgelux strips. The calculator only has gen 1s on it for the eb series. Not gen 2s.
Highsince76
Super Active Member
That's good to know. Glad I didn't use their calculator then. Like I mentioned, I thought their site in general was hard to get around and find what you were looking for.
I went with HLG-240H-20B that ledgardner called for on that particular build. It passed the 5 minute "check it out" test. lol.
It hasn't had any garden time yet.
I can't wait to see what it can do.
I went with HLG-240H-20B that ledgardner called for on that particular build. It passed the 5 minute "check it out" test. lol.
It hasn't had any garden time yet.
I can't wait to see what it can do.
Heathenraider
Heathen Basterd
My build will take me 2 months to pay for cause I ain't scrimping , I trust no one more than Whyte to do it . Fucking Yoda of LEDs
TerpyTyrone
LED Recruiter
With a little electrical, a little carpentry, and a whole lot of want to. Shit we're dangerous brotha!
Armdog
RDWC GROWER
I have 2 quantum boards which draw 288 watts each,vi got the on scratch and Dent from HLG for $150 each and 2 drivers for $65.00 each. Built my own frame and for $215.00 each I average around 1.2 to 1.5 grams per watt. These things put out the par. Each will cover a 3x3 for flower and 4x4 for veg. Wiring them is super easy.
Armdog
RDWC GROWER
Bought a waterproof connector and wago connectors also about $15.00 total. Have not seen that deal in a while . No scratches or dents on anything. Version 2 boards also.
TerpyTyrone
LED Recruiter
Congrats
Armdog
RDWC GROWER
At some point you just have to satisfied with what you have. Getting good yields why change unless it is a significant power savings
.