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[H.A.F.]

What does income tax have to do with the need for property tax?

Property tax is basically a use-tax. As is a road tax. Both assume that the state owns the damn land, both are wrong. All taxation is theft.

Having a flat tax - everyone pays the same low percentage - all of it - no loopholes - no tax returns - and no more money is taken than is needed to fund limited government - is still theft, but a necessary evil for a civilization with shitholes like Chicago that can't support themselves and their charity programs, and their wildly inappropriate unfunded liabilities like exorbitant retirements for government employees that get to vote themselves raises.

Having a national sales tax would actually be the fairest if taxes must be taken. You don't tax gas and groceries. Everything else is taxed. If you have extra money to buy stuff, you pay. If all you can afford is your groceries and gas to get to work, you pay nothing.

 

[H.A.F.]

BTW, I live in MA where I pay income tax, sales tax, road tax (tolls), excise tax on the vehicles and trailers I own, and then I'm also expected to pay sales tax on anything I buy out of state. Do you really think the only taxes I pay that go toward roads and schools is my property taxes? The roads and school money also comes from state and federal grants. Not to mention that many of the roads in towns and cities are state roads which are maintained by the state, not by the town/city, so you're property taxes don't even go to those roads.

I have a comfortable, set retirement income, and I pay income tax in the 5% range on federal. I paid nothing on state.
My property tax on 3 acres and a 2500sqft 3br2ba was under $700. Roads are free, Gas is still under $2.
We have a state lottery that was only approved because the proceeds fund education.
When my property tax assessment shows up it lists all the expenses that are to be covered by the tax - then subtracts all public education expenses like DOT for busses and maintenance, per-student costs, building maintenance, etc. and you pay what's left.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Property tax is basically a use-tax. As is a road tax. Both assume that the state owns the damn land, both are wrong. All taxation is theft.

Having a flat tax - everyone pays the same low percentage - all of it - no loopholes - no tax returns - and no more money is taken than is needed to fund limited government - is still theft, but a necessary evil for a civilization with shitholes like Chicago that can't support themselves and their charity programs, and their wildly inappropriate unfunded liabilities like exorbitant retirements for government employees that get to vote themselves raises.

Having a national sales tax would actually be the fairest if taxes must be taken. You don't tax gas and groceries. Everything else is taxed. If you have extra money to buy stuff, you pay. If all you can afford is your groceries and gas to get to work, you pay nothing.

I disagree. IMO, the state and/or town owns the roads, and WE own OUR land. This is why I think roads having tolls is perfectly acceptable but taxing owned land is unacceptable. I also have no issue with auto gas taxes but I do have an issue with grocery taxes. The one thing the feds got right with fuel taxes is they tax diesel, but not home heating oil, which chemically is the same thing minus some dye added to home heating oil.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

I have a comfortable, set retirement income, and I pay income tax in the 5% range on federal. I paid nothing on state.
My property tax on 3 acres and a 2500sqft 3br2ba was under $700. Roads are free, Gas is still under $2.
We have a state lottery that was only approved because the proceeds fund education.
When my property tax assessment shows up it lists all the expenses that are to be covered by the tax - then subtracts all public education expenses like DOT for busses and maintenance, per-student costs, building maintenance, etc. and you pay what's left.

I pay what you do in property taxes (right around $700), except MONTHLY (not annually), and on only 1.8 acres of land of which 0.75 acres is protected wetlands that I'm not permitted to do anything with but look at.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

When I lived in MT the property taxes were pretty much non-existent, but I just checked their current property taxes and it looks like theirs have gone up a lot since I lived there.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

@hhibrownsbacker :
Good morning sleepyhead

 

[H.A.F.]

disagree. IMO, the state and/or town owns the roads, and WE own OUR land.

Hello - I said:

Both assume that the state owns the damn land, both are wrong. All taxation is theft.

 

[H.A.F.]

The one thing the feds got right with fuel taxes is they tax diesel, but not home heating oil, which chemically is the same thing minus some dye added to home heating oil.

Bullshit - that is socialism, with the gubmint picking winners and losers.

Taxation is theft.

Since it is going to be done anyway it should be done fairly - not based on race, profession, or any particular tax bracket.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Hello - I said:

The part I disagree with is that I think we should be taxed for the roads we use. What I meant about "the state/town owns the roads" is that the tax payers own that but WE (individuals) own the land we live on. Does that clarify what I meant more?

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Bullshit - that is socialism, with the gubmint picking winners and losers.

Taxation is theft.

Since it is going to be done anyway it should be done fairly - not based on race, profession, or any particular tax bracket.

That type of tax has nothing to do with race or tax bracket. It's taxing non essentials (driving your car or mowing your lawn) while not taxing the fuel that is necessary to heat your home.

 

[Highland Rogue]

He's not even necessarily disagreeing with what I have to say. He's just shitting on all of my posts because he thinks he's getting to me. In the past 4 days he's logged onto this site for no other reason than to see if I've posted to this thread and to shit on all my posts. I find it hilarious and sad at the same time. Just take a look at his activity page. Or, if you want the condensed version of just when he shit on my posts, then here's a screenshot that puts it into perspective (I'm sure I missed some, too)

View attachment 65354

Maybe the corona virus has grabbed him though? I've seen those half ass half mask wearers before.

Glazed look, mask over their mouth, but not their nostrils. The virus sees that and just goes in thru a nostril and gnaws chunks out of their brains!

 

[treefarmercharlie]

And, just to be clear, I still think taxing fuel of any kind is bullshit, but I think they "got it right" by at least not taxing heating oil.

 

[H.A.F.]

That type of tax has nothing to do with race or tax bracket. It's taxing non essentials (driving your car or mowing your lawn) while not taxing the fuel that is necessary to heat your home.

So driving your car - to work - is non-essential? Which Amish town do you live in?

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Maybe the corona virus has grabbed him though? I've seen those half ass half mask wearers before.

Glazed look, mask over their mouth, but not their nostrils. The virus sees that and just goes in thru a nostril and gnaws chunks out of their brains!

He's deathly afraid of this virus. If he actually leaves his house he probably has a garbage bag over his head.

 

[hhibrownsbacker]

It is kind of odd that a person would shit on a post rather than advancing a reasonable and persuasive argument why your post makes no sense and theirs does etc.

I suggest you view them as a compliment, cuz if people who do that had a better argument, they'd use it.

If he ever spouts anything worth me wasting my time on I'll be glad to advance the argument. But until then I'm happy with just shitting on his posts because they don't deserve replies. At least not by me YET.

 

[H.A.F.]

What I meant about "the state/town owns the roads" is that the tax payers own that but WE (individuals) own the land we live on. Does that clarify what I meant more?

And the state and town taxes pay for those roads. Ever see a sign that says "End State Maintenance" - in my area that means it is the end of the state and the beginning of the local responsibility for road repair. And usually the roads get better AFTER the sign LOL

Federal taxes support the interstate.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

So driving your car - to work - is non-essential? Which Amish town do you live in?

Not all roads need to be taxed. I don't know where you live, but it's usually only certain highways/freeways that have tolls. I've worked from home for almost 2 years but, for a decade before that, I commuted a minimum of 80 miles a day, and I chose to avoid toll roads to make it more affordable and scenic. I know all about how much commuting can cost. I was putting 20K - 30K miles on my car annually for a long time

 

[Highland Rogue]

If he ever spouts anything worth me wasting my time on I'll be glad to advance the argument. But until then I'm happy with just shitting on his posts because they don't deserve replies. At least not by me YET.

He seems very willing to apply a logical approach. Are you sure you don't shit on his posts because you're not able to make good counter arguments that prove your point and disprove his?

 

[H.A.F.]

And in my area, there is no local tax - only state. The local tax revenue comes from property tax.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

If he ever spouts anything worth me wasting my time on I'll be glad to advance the argument. But until then I'm happy with just shitting on his posts because they don't deserve replies. At least not by me YET.

You've wasted countless hours over the last FOUR DAYS on me.

Oh, BTW, those useless internet points you think you are taking away from me? I still have more than double what you have and I'm not even retaliating...because I'm an adult who has more important things to do with my time.