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gwheels

Hobby Farmer
I think its time to hunker down and grow my own....holy shit i started this a year ago...hunkered down jan 31 2020.

So more ammo is all i need....to stop the Russian forces.

And lets be real...are you sure it didnt come from a USA lab? Ok too many conspiracy movies for 1 week back to....

Step brothers...you curly haired fuck...

And if you follow the money you end up at phizzers so...i think we should evoke laws that MAKE all drug companies not for profit...for the good of mankind..

but G....you are not in Canada anymore...

:D
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
i think we should evoke laws that MAKE all drug companies not for profit...for the good of mankind..
It's good you'd like people to have access to cheaper drugs. I would to.

I don't think the best way to do that, is to MAKE the existing drug companies not for profit though or to forcibly set fixed prices. Government intervention, thru protectionism, is what caused the high prices in the first place.

The way to more ethically reduce consumer prices, is to take away the monopolistic government protections drug companies have and allow other companies or people to compete in the market. More players, instead of a few protected players, means consumers have more choices and producers that want to stay in business will have to lower prices while maintaining a good product or risk losing customers to somebody who will.

For instance, most of us remember when hardcore weed prohibition was around. That caused a reduction in supply, it was illegal and hazardous to produce weed. Prohibition meant supply was less than what it's become, under the current "prohibition lite". It's why pot is cheaper in Colorado and California, but still expensive in heavy prohibition places where growing is a felony.

A low supply of any product or service, when there is still great demand for that product or service causes prices to remain high. With a less restricted market, there's more weed around, hence lower consumer prices.

In both situations, legal prescription drugs and "illegal drugs" like weed, the potential supply is artificially reduced due to government intervention in what it would be if there were a free market. Allow more people to produce something without legislative barriers or protectionism and prices will drop.

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gwheels

Hobby Farmer
In Canada the cost for medication is about 1/2 to 1/3 of the USA because generic drugs are allowed far sooner.

So dont buy what they are selling you...you could have cheaper drugs but its about share holders is the situation.

And we are stocked out of #4 cone style coffee filters...i had to ghetto filter some t shirts there for a bit and found a stack of those basket ones and have been modfifying them.

COFFEE IS A MUST

I was thinking holy shit people are soaking in the coffee but no....they make fabric masks that take those as an insert (a slot in the fabric). You take the filters out and toss them.

Geeze some people think of smart stuff. I need a few for in my car in case i pass by an undesirable with a covid stare.

I wear the gloves too so they can see my finger better when they cut me off.
 
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Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
So dont buy what they are selling you...you could have cheaper drugs but its about share holders is the situation.
I hear you! There certainly could and should be lower prices for "prescription drugs".
I avoid prescription drugs as much as I can and feel bad for those who aren't able to do that.

It IS about profit, but profit isn't the bad guy in the equation. Forcible monopolies are the bad guy, since they create the root causes for outrageous prices.

The best way to reduce prices is to "allow" a free market to exist.

Meaning people are free to produce, buy and sell things without third party restrictive constraints. In the present paradigm, government constraints are there to keep others from being suppliers, to use regulation to create a virtual monopoly. Crony capitalism, using government regulation to funnel money from captured markets to favored protected companies.

What exists today in the legal prescription drug market is NOT a free market, it is a REGULATED market. By design, to forcibly protect profit.

Some people erroneously blame "free markets" for high prices, when the exact opposite is true. It's crony capitalism that doe it,
Crony capitalism / regulated markets, which prevail today are not the same as an actual free market. We aren't "allowed" to have free markets, which is usually why things cost so much.

The regulations in place are usually justified under "safety", but that's a ruse. The real reason is, since government protectionism snuffs out competition, profit doesn't have to be earned thru customer loyalty. When you hold market share because customers have few suppliers to go to, (forcible monopoly) you're using a criminal business model, despite the legal façade. Legalized robbery.

If weed were totally unregulated, not like today's "prohibition lite" legalization, prices would be very much lower.
A LOT lower even than the somewhat reduced prices legalized places see now. The same thing would happen with prescription drugs. You SHOULD be able to buy those kinds of drugs without a prescription, since the prescription itself is ANOTHER barrier and layer that helps to keep prices artificially high.

Bottom line, regulations create and maintain conditions for high prices, since they restrict competition and don't rely on good customer service to create customer loyalty. They rely on a "gun", instead. That's not a good way to treat customers.

Free markets, reward good service providers and allow consumers choices, which create a competitive market among suppliers and lead to lower prices. Regulated markets, reward the protected cronies and reduce consumer choices, keeping prices artificially high.

More freedom is the answer.
 

gwheels

Hobby Farmer
I dont agree at all. :)

Free market should not exist at all for those things REQUIRED for normal life and security like

Prison should be run by the state not for profit...or you have cops arresting people to get those road built.

Drugs should be a strictly enforced profit. PERIOD...You require some drugs to live and they should not be a burden to ANYONE when you are retired for example.

Your freedom and my freedom are different but I am a Canuck so...its ok by me.

And it comes back to health care here. Not paying except in your income taxes....need a quadruple bypass....that is no cost. You are on the list for the operation. No co pays.

It changes the perspective on the other freedoms.

to make the health care work...there is ONE HUGE obstacle...you have to make it almost impossible to sue a doctor...so many differences in a weird way. In Canada it is pretty much impossible to sue a doctor. They would have to sew a hand to your face to have a shot at it. And even then.....but you can still high 5 people right...

but it feels like a slap in the face.

:)
 
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Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
I dont agree at all. :)

Free market should not exist at all for those things REQUIRED for normal life and security like

Prison should be run by the state not for profit...or you have cops arresting people to get those road built.

Drugs should be a strictly enforced profit. PERIOD...You require some drugs to live and they should not be a burden to ANYONE when you are retired for example.

Your freedom and my freedom are different but I am a Canuck so...its ok by me.
So if you're a food grower you should not be allowed to make a profit?

How would you buy clothes if you were a food producer spending your time producing food, a thing REQUIRED by EVERYBODY, if you were restricted from making a profit?

How would a food producer buy fuel for heating? Weed seeds? Dildos and cat food ? (that was a weird combination eh?)

You'd like the same entity, a controlling government which created the conditions for crony capitalism and crushes actual freedom to somehow use force a different way to now crush consumer choices? Good luck, I feel bad for your hungry cat in that world.

As far as your suggestion that people would get arrested to build roads, I can address that in another thread, don't want to derail the corona virus anymore than I already may have. I understand and share your concern about private business and potential forcible monopolies being used unjustly. I can explain how a free market scenario can prevent that, another time though, maybe in another thread? I can also explain how prisons run by the state ARE run for profit, just not in a way most people have an awareness of.

Your freedom ("rights") is the same as mine, because we're both human beings. How you're "allowed" to freely exercise your rights does vary from one locale to another. I'd like you to be free to run your life, because if that's the societal norm, it increases the odds I can do the same with my own life. Peace.
 
D

Deleted member 60

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A bunch of our politicians down here have financial interests in the Prison system...so you are correct. It's all about MONEY. Crime does pay....and so does the criminal when he gets caught. If you've ever been BUSTED...you know damn well from that experience that it's all about the $$$. At EVERY corner they want you to pay for this or for that. If yer a big time dealer...they will come for you BEFORE the little guy...not cus yer more of a threat.....but because you have MORE ASSETS THEY CAN SEIZE. Yup..follow the money...always. Just like Washington. Want the truth..Follow the money. That's why we ain't seeing any tax returns from the Clown.

We finally stopped having income....so that qualified us to stop paying $2200 a MONTH for insurance and jump on "Obamacare". Sad that you have to not make ANY money to get cheap health care here....but that's the set up. We now pay $85 a month for better coverage than we had paying $2200 a month. Pretty tough stuff to be able to take 25K out of your pension..annually...tax free....and then turn around and give ALL of it to an insurance provider. We were digging into the reserves hard just to eat....cus the $$$ we thought would feed us went for insurance payments. It was DOUBLE what we budgeted when we set the plan in motion to retire 'early". And when you retire @ 55 and social security/Medicare are a decade away....you get to ride the private insurance train. I was paying 2X more for insurance monthly than my old mortgage on a 500K house... Crazy shit.

the gig here is that many folks over 65 are on the Gov't dole...so CHANGE is hard cus they are gettin their insurance/costs covered. We are in that boat now with Obamacare.... but I'd love to see Universal health care cus when we tap Medicare @ 65 it will costs us 5X what we pay now for private insurance under Obamacare. It's all a scam......and it needs dismantled big time.

Sadly...folks just wanna go back to their same, lame "normal" after this virus hit......so I'm not expecting much change from this crew. I have other friends in Canuckia and they relay the same speel as you....no worries about health care.... etc.

Got a spare room? Heeheee....
 

gwheels

Hobby Farmer
The argument makes sense until....I am a milk producer and we should all get together and make money.

I think we will charge 20 dollars a gallon.

That is where regulation comes in. You can make a profit, you just cant bend people over because you have opportunity with basic requirements. Well you may be able to there but here they will come down HARD on profiteering off of tragedy.

That is more what i mean.

You cant make 200% selling masks and hand sanitizer here...unless you like fines and jail you greedy bastard.

like that.

I am getting the room ready @stiickygreen pool opens in 2 weeks. Fresh harvests occur bi weekly but they are easy trims so its more smoking weed and pool time :D
 
D

Deleted member 60

Guest
Wow..a pool. We don't have those here. Not much swimming in CO...even the lakes are too cold. Wet suit, anyone?

MANY goods...like milk...are heavily subsidized here by the Gov't. Most folks don't think about that when they buy a gallon of milk..or gas...or beef....or many other goods that are subsidized heavily in the same manner or in some form or another. Do folks really believe that the "Cattle Rancher" owns the 25,000 acres his cows graze upon? Could he even make it without basically giving him the Gov't land to use...for mere pennies on the acre? Nope. He couldn't. Subsidies keep him afloat.

So it's a "Free Market"...with parameters...and with favors for some.... and the water is very muddy for many on how it all works.

Except in gwheels pool...he sees all the way to the bottom of the pool cus..yup..he's not an American
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
The argument makes sense until....I am a milk producer and we should all get together and make money.

I think we will charge 20 dollars a gallon.

That is where regulation comes in.
You're almost right, except for how you would regulate. Forcible regulations are not the answer. Free market customer feedback "regulations" are the answer. Free markets give customers choices. Unfree markets do not.

Government imposed market regulations are what caused the ridiculous prescription drug prices to begin with, remember?

Actual free markets have ethical regulations built into them. Consumer choice to go somewhere else is how that happens. In an actual freemarket, you don't have to pay $20 for milk or $100 for "prescription drugs". You could charge those prices, but when the guy across the street is selling milk for $4 a gallon, and making money, how long would the $20 per gallon people stay in business?

If you and several dairy farmers got together and decided to charge $20 for a gallon of milk, it would be like a bunch of weed growers getting together and saying, the minimum price of weed is now $500. When was the last time you paid $500 for an ounce? If weed were totally unregulated and you got with other growers and said, "hey let's do that $500 ounce thing" what prevents me from growing my own or buying from another person who sells for $50 per ounce? Nothing. Freedom for the win!

In both cases, in an actual free market, it would be easy for other people to enter either market and produce a product that consumers like and still make a profit without the collusion and attempt to regulate a market by cartel methods.

Not to be rude, but you are arguing against the immutable laws of free market supply and demand and I think your cat might be getting hungry too....thought I heard him meowing for some of that delicious nonprofit crony capitalism market regulated sawdust filler catfood a controlled market would bring about. Why do you hate your cat? Lol.
 
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Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Subsidies keep him afloat.
I'm not a fan of subsidies, because they aren't charity, they're forcible redistribution, which remove free choices.

Subsidies keep some people afloat, by letting them travel more comfortably on a ship that has others rowing in the slave galley.
I don't think there should be a slave galley, which is kind of how I view a regulated market. You don't use force to beget a good outcome, you use incentives and free choices to beget good outcomes.

Nothing in a free market prevents people from doing actual charity, which is a good thing. In an actual free market circumstance, if we were "allowed" to have one, rather than paying for the high prices which regulations create, people would experience lower prices and potentially have more money or goods to be charitable with.
 
D

Deleted member 60

Guest
I hear you. I just think MOST folks don't have a clue how crafted and planned it all is.....and how some industries are propped up...while others just aren't. Sadly.....if we let most folks go without regulation (free market/etc) they will cheat, steal, and poison others to make a buck. And look where we are going with the examples being given from above. It's gonna get worse before it gets better....cus we are speeding hard right now across the board...and much of it is being allowed to stand. Crony Favoritism is quickly replacing Capitalism. Yes..it's always been like that..but in the past they at least had the decency to not rub it right in our faces.....and in the past..Americans would have done something. Not now though. It's all a fucking joke.....on us.

but Wal Mart and the dog groomer are open...so hey......all is well man!
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
.if we let most folks go without regulation (free market/etc) they will cheat, steal, and poison others to make a buck.
We agree cheating poisoing thieves shouldn't be rewarded.

If you force people into only using regulated markets wouldn't you be stealing peoples free choices so the regulated guys can make lots of shifty bucks though ?

If weed were unregulated completely how much cheating could a dishonest weed seller continue to do, if consumers were free to buy weed from somebody else who wanted to make an honest buck at reasonable prices?

Most consumers would go to the honest guy(s) and recommend him to their friends.

The dishonest guy would be customer "regulated" right out of business. A free market already HAS regulations, but they're not the forcible kind we've grown used to which are written on paper. Free markets self enforce and reward honest suppliers and put bad suppliers out of business. The product or service doesn't matter, the customer choices are what regulate (in a good way) free markets. Captive customers are easier to cheat than those who have choices.

Okay, obligatory corona virus mention now....

One of the things which will be attempted from all the corona virus stuff going on, is somebody will begin selling vaccines sooner or later. If the suppliers are limited to government protected people, what is the incentive for them to give anybody a good deal if there is no or little allowed competition? None.
 

gwheels

Hobby Farmer
I stirred enough up today already...geeze i wake up pissy and everything goes BOOM.

My Carona (to the tune of my Sharona).
 
D

Deleted member 60

Guest
Lose the thought that weed will be unregulated. It's a cash cow now for the Gov't...so..no chance of that.....and no money in it in the future for you or me. Maybe some chump change...cus we're honest and all...but other than that...nah....not gonna happen. Those days are gone. If you didn't play while you could/while you still can...ooops. As they say "Don't quit yer day job".

Good thing this virus was a hoax though. Just think what coulda happened! Thank God for leadership....
 

Highland Rogue

Really Active Member
Lose the thought that weed will be unregulated. It's a cash cow now for the Gov't...so..no chance of that.....and no money in it in the future for you or me. Maybe some chump change...cus we're honest and all...but other than that...nah....not gonna happen. Those days are gone. If you didn't play while you could/while you still can...ooops. As they say "Don't quit yer day job".

Good thing this virus was a hoax though. Just think what coulda happened! Thank God for leadership....
I agree that "the leaders" won't WILLINGLY deregulate and git the fuck out of weed completely, as they should. That's because they think they own people and can run your life better than you can and they don't want to give that up. Knowing that "we" have two choices, obey the fuckers, or not.

Voting today's fucker out and replacing with tomorrow's tyrant might seem like a good idea, but as you stated, that won't get weed deregulated. We don't gain actual freedom when we replace one tyrant with a kinder tyrant, we just reinforce that there should be some kind of tyrant and would he/she pretty please be a little nicer.

All stripes of politician even those who are for "legalization" still want to hold the weed leash in some way. All governments are basically the same, in that they hold the leash, we wear the collars. Yet, we're told they're our servants and we have "representation" . Lol.
Trump, Biden, etc. just different flavors of control freak.

This virus, no matter where you stand, if it's real, a little bit real or are very concerned, is going to be the straw that breaks the back of tyrants or stomps out any remaining freedoms. Guess we'll find out how it ends, since we're living it.

The virus may not be a hoax, but it will be / is a very useful emergency for "them" to use the virus to cover up their money game, and to gain more control over peoples lives. That's already happening. The further they go controlling people, the more they risk exposure of their real intentions and the more "moderate" people will wake up and see how / why this emergency is being used.

It's possible to be concerned for people vulnerable to this virus AND be concerned about government overreach. That's not a narrative they want to have gain traction though. It's the sensible point of view, since that's what the evidence supports.

H.R. 6666, is a proposed edict, that wants to piss out the remaining embers of our rights. If enacted, it will have the door to door "virus Police" coming to your house, without being invited. That's not going to go well, as some people will object to that and resist the intruders.
 
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