YLYL possibly going to hell edition.

[ttystikk]

The other thing about "starvation wages" is that it is VERY subjective. there are parts of the country where you can pay every bill you have and buy groceries, where in other places that won't pay the rent.

There is not one county anywhere in America where a full time job at the local minimum wage will give you a wage where 30% or less of it goes to rent. That's the definition of housing insecurity.

 

[H.A.F.]

There is not one county anywhere in America where a full time job at the local minimum wage will give you a wage where 30% or less of it goes to rent. That's the definition of housing insecurity.

That is the paradigm shift that happened - a minimum wage gob is designed for people with minimal skill to learn a work ethic and get some gas money while they are still young and have zero bills. Burger flipper was never designed as a career choice. The wage is called a MINIMUM for a reason. What does wallymart pay nationwide? Do they pay more in urban areas where it costs you a left nut just to pay rent? Or in areas where the cost of living is less do they pay less? Pretty sure they don't have a cost of living based payscale, and they start at $15/hr for someone with zero skills and zero bills that walks to work after school.

A single mom or dad picking up extra cash while the kids are in school is another group of workers that snag the low-wage jobs. They are always available, and no one expects you to make a career of it.

You want to make a "living wage"? learn a trade. provide a service that commands payment. Richest motherfucker in the world will drop bank on getting his AC fixed, or fix his leaky roof or unclog his plumbing. You want to work at McDonalds and bitch that you don't make enough to feed three kids? Well ain't you special.

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

I'm a ve

I think you missed David's point; the narrative is about the glory/duty/sacred status of "work" rather than having the focus be on the results of that effort. The myth is there to sucker people into thinking they're "supposed to work" when those in our society who make the most money most certainly do not work in the traditional sense...

Which leads me to my second point; you said something about how it took the Internet to create a class of people who make vast amounts of money while not being productive. This is just plain false; the ownership/capital class existed long before the Internet- and then there are finance people, who are the living definition of useless earners.

Finally, you use some pretty tired talking points to bash on unions. Clearly, workplace history was not a topic you were exposed to during your education (not a surprise, considering who controls school curricula these days) and so it appears that you may have missed the enormous benefits unions brought to the workplace, including living wages, a safe place to work, decent hours and benefits. These were the foundation of America's middle class growth through the 1970s and when unions were seriously curtailed starting with the Reagan "Revolution" we saw an explosion of wealth and income inquiry that has led America to the place we are today.

I agree that we have serious problems. I don't agree that forcing people to work for starvation wages in dangerous work environments is the way forward.

I am a vested Union Carpenter Local #1159 and Union Boilermaker Local #667.
Unions have treated me well over the years.
Lotsa money to be made,
but very dangerous work.
Unions are begging for apprentices.
No one wants to work,
especially after the "Rona".

 

[ttystikk]

I'm a ve

I am a vested Union Carpenter Local #1159 and Union Boilermaker Local #667.
Unions have treated me well over the years.
Lotsa money to be made,
but very dangerous work.
Unions are begging for apprentices.
No one wants to work,
especially after the "Rona".

I'm training to be an HVAC tech. My path is different than most but if I was young and looking to put in 20 years doing it, I wouldn't consider a non-union shop. I've already seen how the clown show works at the "independents."

 

[ttystikk]

That is the paradigm shift that happened - a minimum wage gob is designed for people with minimal skill to learn a work ethic and get some gas money while they are still young and have zero bills. Burger flipper was never designed as a career choice. The wage is called a MINIMUM for a reason. What does wallymart pay nationwide? Do they pay more in urban areas where it costs you a left nut just to pay rent? Or in areas where the cost of living is less do they pay less? Pretty sure they don't have a cost of living based payscale, and they start at $15/hr for someone with zero skills and zero bills that walks to work after school.

A single mom or dad picking up extra cash while the kids are in school is another group of workers that snag the low-wage jobs. They are always available, and no one expects you to make a career of it.

You want to make a "living wage"? learn a trade. provide a service that commands payment. Richest motherfucker in the world will drop bank on getting his AC fixed, or fix his leaky roof or unclog his plumbing. You want to work at McDonalds and bitch that you don't make enough to feed three kids? Well ain't you special.

Just no. The notion that someone who works for a business doesn't deserve a living wage is corporatist garbage; you're just advocating for exploitation. There's no other way to put it.

 

[H.A.F.]

Just no. The notion that someone who works for a business doesn't deserve a living wage is corporatist garbage; you're just advocating for exploitation. There's no other way to put it.

The manager of the burger joint is the adult that makes a living wage managing the kids that work there. Or that's how it was designed. That is why it is a PARADIGM SHIFT. A different way of thinking.

If you want to pay the burger-flipping fry-guy $20/hr the hamburgers are no longer be affordable fast food. They have to pay for that somewhere whether it's paying way too much for the shitty food they make, or them reducing their quality standards even further when buying their ingredients. SOMEONE has to pay. You want the "millionaire" franchise owner to foot the bill? He ain't a damn charity and if he's the local guy that owns a string of 3-5 restaurants he is probably monetarily fucked as well.

Who pays for your idea of everyone that works gets a salary?

It is an hourly wage for a reason. Motherfucker might quit next hour. I honestly don't have a dog in the fight, since I did my time working for the man and got the pension that gives me a living wage while sitting on my ass. I went through 25 years of playing someone elses game for a paycheck to get there, but we both knew the end goal. Pay me for life. But there is a definite difference in what people expect to be given them, and how much time and effort they are willing to expend to get paid for it.

 

[H.A.F.]

The other part to be factored in is that I could have retired anywhere I wanted. I would get the same pay each month but other places I might need to still work to pay the bills. It's about choices.

If you want to spend your time fighting to get more money for less work, there's where your effort is. If you spend that effort as an apprentice learning a trade, getting paid more with each thing you learn to do, then you progress. Eventually you have options.

 

[H.A.F.]

How did the funny shit thread get twisted to this? I'm done

 

[ttystikk]

The manager of the burger joint is the adult that makes a living wage managing the kids that work there. Or that's how it was designed. That is why it is a PARADIGM SHIFT. A different way of thinking.

If you want to pay the burger-flipping fry-guy $20/hr the hamburgers are no longer be affordable fast food. They have to pay for that somewhere whether it's paying way too much for the shitty food they make, or them reducing their quality standards even further when buying their ingredients. SOMEONE has to pay. You want the "millionaire" franchise owner to foot the bill? He ain't a damn charity and if he's the local guy that owns a string of 3-5 restaurants he is probably monetarily fucked as well.

Who pays for your idea of everyone that works gets a salary?

It is an hourly wage for a reason. Motherfucker might quit next hour. I honestly don't have a dog in the fight, since I did my time working for the man and got the pension that gives me a living wage while sitting on my ass. I went through 25 years of playing someone elses game for a paycheck to get there, but we both knew the end goal. Pay me for life. But there is a definite difference in what people expect to be given them, and how much time and effort they are willing to expend to get paid for it.

It's just flat not true. McDonald's workers in Australia and the Netherlands, along other places, get living minimum wages- and how much more expensive are the burgers? Less than 5%.

You've really swallowed a lot of talking points that do not bear up to even cursory scrutiny.

And I'm not going to let you by with the argument that somehow a given job is not worth a living wage. Who cares what the job is? If you need someone to do it, PAY THEM.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

I'm a ve

I am a vested Union Carpenter Local #1159 and Union Boilermaker Local #667.
Unions have treated me well over the years.
Lotsa money to be made,
but very dangerous work.
Unions are begging for apprentices.
No one wants to work,
especially after the "Rona".

My wife’s family were all union workers. Mostly electrical and iron workers. When we got married her mother was trying to push me into the electrical union, but every every job I worked on where union workers were left such a sour taste in my mouth that I refused to join. Especially since it meant I would start at the bottom in my late 20s. My father in law told me at the time that he was in my side, that the unions aren’t like they used to be, and said it would take me years just to get back to where I was at at the time. I get the point of the unions but the problem with them is that their workers and project managers use the “rules” to not work or to slow shit down to a crawl. Every job I was on in Boston and NYC that had union workers were the most inefficient projects ive ever worked on. By the time I was able to actually get in to areas to do my work it was time to start cleaning up to go home.

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

My wife’s family were all union workers. Mostly electrical and iron workers. When we got married her mother was trying to push me into the electrical union, but every every job I worked on where union workers were left such a sour taste in my mouth that I refused to join. Especially since it meant I would start at the bottom in my late 20s. My father in law told me at the time that he was in my side, that the unions aren’t like they used to be, and said it would take me years just to get back to where I was at at the time. I get the point of the unions but the problem with them is that their workers and project managers use the “rules” to not work or to slow shit down to a crawl. Every job I was on in Boston and NYC that had union workers were the most inefficient projects ive ever worked on. By the time I was able to actually get in to areas to do my work it was time to start cleaning up to go home.

There's a lot of "red tape" and hoops the contractor and the power plant, chemical plant, or whatever you are gonna work on.
For a coal plant maintenance "outage", will normally shut down in wintertime. Boilermakers will load the job with 2 or 300 workers as to guarantee the job will finish on time or before date is decided. This is called a "hard dollar" job. If you miss the deadline, can cost the power plant a million bucks a day.
Now if it's a "by the hr" no hurry maintenance job, it can drag out to keep men working. but normally those are less than 50 men for less than 15 days.
They keep men on the job just in case something goes wrong, it can be back up in a day or 2.
We got shit done, and yea you had the ones that walked around BS'ing with the other trades.
One thing you do not do, is do another trades job. Not even picking up a pc of paper if it lying on the floor.
The floor and any clean up belongs to the "laborers Union". You will get reprimanded, cause you're taking another man's job.
That slows a productive day to a crawl when waiting on an electrician to change a light bulb or a laborer to clear your work area for examples.
I am a welder so I dropped my hood and welded. Then I'd sometimes have to wait for what I'm working on to cool and keep from warping. Then burn a few more rod. Rinse and repeat.
Then it's "breaktime". lol
Honest, I loved my job.

 

[H.A.F.]

 

[H.A.F.]

My wife’s family were all union workers. Mostly electrical and iron workers. When we got married her mother was trying to push me into the electrical union, but every every job I worked on where union workers were left such a sour taste in my mouth that I refused to join. Especially since it meant I would start at the bottom in my late 20s. My father in law told me at the time that he was in my side, that the unions aren’t like they used to be, and said it would take me years just to get back to where I was at at the time. I get the point of the unions but the problem with them is that their workers and project managers use the “rules” to not work or to slow shit down to a crawl. Every job I was on in Boston and NYC that had union workers were the most inefficient projects ive ever worked on. By the time I was able to actually get in to areas to do my work it was time to start cleaning up to go home.

Main things unions do now besides collecting part of your paycheck is to keep shitheads that need to be fired from being fired.

 

[H.A.F.]

@NoWaistedSpace you want fast food people to make $20/hour, the restaraunt industry does this and it's advertized on bookface today. Questions?

 

[Bobby Legit]

 

[H.A.F.]

View attachment 130699

We've obviously met, we might even be related! LOL

 

[Bobby Legit]

We've obviously met, we might even be related! LOL

Lol...
My distant cousin Haf Legit...
Lol...I've seen your grow, you're more than half legit.

 

[619KGB]

 

[619KGB]

 

[1oldfart]

The other thing about "starvation wages" is that it is VERY subjective. there are parts of the country where you can pay every bill you have and buy groceries, where in other places that won't pay the rent.

very true@H.A.

Main things unions do now besides collecting part of your paycheck is to keep shitheads that need to be fired from being fired.

hell ive had 1 union that had a insulator , go to sleep in a little fort built up around him ,only problem was the grate deck over his head , big wig project managment went off.two days later he was back ,dad was union stewart, and i had to pay their retirement plan a buck an hour ,just because i was on lone from a different hall, pissed me off didn't stick around that kind of crap long.