YLYL possibly going to hell edition.

NoWaistedSpace

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What technological advances are doing to society.
Bullshit Jobs

In Bullshit Jobs, American anthropologist David Graeber posits that the productivity benefits of automation have not led to a 15-hour workweek, as predicted by economist John Maynard Keynes in 1930, but instead to "bullshit jobs": "a form of paid employment that is so completely pointless, unnecessary, or pernicious that even the employee cannot justify its existence even though, as part of the conditions of employment, the employee feels obliged to pretend that this is not the case."[2] While these jobs can offer good compensation and ample free time, Graeber holds that the pointlessness of the work grates at their humanity and creates a "profound psychological violence".[2]
The author contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs:
  1. Flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, store greeters;
  2. Goons, who act to harm or deceive others on behalf of their employer, or to prevent other goons from doing so, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists;
  3. Duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive;
  4. Box tickers, who create the appearance that something useful is being done when it is not, e.g., survey administrators, in-house magazine journalists, corporate compliance officers;
  5. Taskmasters, who create extra work for those who do not need it, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals.[3][2]
Graeber argues that these jobs are largely in the private sector despite the idea that market competition would root out such inefficiencies. In companies, he concludes that the rise of service sector jobs owes less to economic need than to "managerial feudalism", in which employers need underlings in order to feel important and maintain competitive status and power.[2][3] In society, he credits the Puritan-capitalist work ethic for making the labor of capitalism into religious duty: that workers did not reap advances in productivity as a reduced workday because, as a societal norm, they believe that work determines their self-worth, even as they find that work pointless. Graeber describes this cycle as "profound psychological violence"[3] and "a scar across our collective soul".[4] Graeber suggests that one of the challenges to confronting our feelings about bullshit jobs is a lack of a behavioral script in much the same way that people are unsure of how to feel if they are the object of unrequited love. In turn, rather than correcting this system, Graeber writes, individuals attack those whose jobs are innately fulfilling.[4]
Graeber holds that work as a source of virtue is a recent idea, that work was disdained by the aristocracy in classical times, but inverted as virtuous through then-radical philosophers like John Locke. The Puritan idea of virtue through suffering justified the toil of the working classes as noble.[3] And so, Graeber continues, bullshit jobs justify contemporary patterns of living: that the pains of dull work are suitable justification for the ability to fulfill consumer desires, and that fulfilling those desires is indeed the reward for suffering through pointless work. Accordingly, over time, the prosperity extracted from technological advances has been reinvested into industry and consumer growth for its own sake rather than the purchase of additional leisure time from work.[2] Bullshit jobs also serve political ends, in which political parties are more concerned about having jobs than whether the jobs are fulfilling. In addition, he contends, populations occupied with busy work have less time to revolt.[4]
As a potential solution, Graeber suggests universal basic income, a livable benefit paid to all, without qualification, which would let people work at their leisure.[3] The author credits a natural human work cycle of cramming and slacking as the most productive way to work, as farmers, fishers, warriors, and novelists vary in the rigor of work based on the need for productivity, not the standard working hours, which can appear arbitrary when compared to cycles of productivity. Graeber contends that time not spent pursuing pointless work could instead be spent pursuing creative activities.[2]
If you want to read the rest, go to
Bullshit Jobs Wikipedia
 
Last edited:

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
In society, he credits the Puritan-capitalist work ethic for making the labor of capitalism into religious duty: that workers did not reap advances in productivity as a reduced workday because, as a societal norm, they believe that work determines their self-worth, even as they find that work pointless.
Neat article but I disagree with this one point. You have this division of labor because you have people with "puritan?" work ethic? Sorry no. You have people WITH work ethic and those without.

I think it all starrted in the 90's with internet startups. You had people for the first time in history making millions and creating nothing tangible. Not providing a unique service, or a product, or anything that could actually be measured. They sold dreams of helping you be the next internet millionaire but helping them become one. It was a big ass circle jerk that fell through.

But it lasted long enough that people started looking for and finding options so they could work in air conditioining and not really have to put any effort into supporting themselves. Unions brought on workplace safety inspectors and the like - not a wierd religious thing. They created the need for OSHA and other government types that could just be defined as fault-finders. They make rules then hunt for people breaking them. Then corporations have to hire people to watch those jackasses and keep them in compliance. Because hiring the safety douche-nozzle is cheaper than paying the government fine. And at least you have the douche-nozzle as a scapegoat with your shareholders.

There's also the large portion of welfare society that just has to pretend to be looking for a job. These are the people that frequent temp agencies and can't hold a job because they have no work ethic. Can't show up on time, call in sick because of a hangover - those guys. A lot of these are people that probably had hard working parents that handed them everything on a platter so they could feel like good parents - while setting their kids up to be the trash of society. Even prostitutes and drug dealers serve a purpose and have a work ethic ;)

"I'll never whoop my kids ass like my parents did" is part of that same silver spoon work ethic. When there are no consequences for bad behavior there's no reason to change. Some of this was brought on by the social services groups. Back to government trying to raise us instead of parents.

Government is the main reason that work ethic took a bath.
 

treefarmercharlie

🍆
Admin
Posting this here, because I need to vent, and felt like this was a good place for it. I'm arguing with some idiot on Reddit who is telling a new grower that they need to throw out an entire outdoor plant because they found mold in a single cola. This idiot is saying that "Every expert grower recommends this" and "Once mold develops on the plant the plant is covered in spores and the rest of the plant will mold". When I corrected him and told him that mold spores are all over healthy plants, too, and that we dry and store our flower in controlled environments to prevent those spores from germinating, he told me to stop spreading "uneducated" information to new growers. So I look at the guys profile and he's currently in the middle of his second grow.
 

ttystikk

Nerd Gone Vertical
Posting this here, because I need to vent, and felt like this was a good place for it. I'm arguing with some idiot on Reddit who is telling a new grower that they need to throw out an entire outdoor plant because they found mold in a single cola. This idiot is saying that "Every expert grower recommends this" and "Once mold develops on the plant the plant is covered in spores and the rest of the plant will mold". When I corrected him and told him that mold spores are all over healthy plants, too, and that we dry and store our flower in controlled environments to prevent those spores from germinating, he told me to stop spreading "uneducated" information to new growers. So I look at the guys profile and he's currently in the middle of his second grow.
I'm on Reddit and I see these clowns regularly.

Just ask them about their credentials; they fold every time.
 

ttystikk

Nerd Gone Vertical
What technological advances are doing to society.
Bullshit Jobs

In Bullshit Jobs, American anthropologist David Graeber posits that the productivity benefits of automation have not led to a 15-hour workweek, as predicted by economist John Maynard Keynes in 1930, but instead to "bullshit jobs": "a form of paid employment that is so completely pointless, unnecessary, or pernicious that even the employee cannot justify its existence even though, as part of the conditions of employment, the employee feels obliged to pretend that this is not the case."[2] While these jobs can offer good compensation and ample free time, Graeber holds that the pointlessness of the work grates at their humanity and creates a "profound psychological violence".[2]
The author contends that more than half of societal work is pointless, both large parts of some jobs and, as he describes, five types of entirely pointless jobs:
  1. Flunkies, who serve to make their superiors feel important, e.g., receptionists, administrative assistants, door attendants, store greeters;
  2. Goons, who act to harm or deceive others on behalf of their employer, or to prevent other goons from doing so, e.g., lobbyists, corporate lawyers, telemarketers, public relations specialists;
  3. Duct tapers, who temporarily fix problems that could be fixed permanently, e.g., programmers repairing shoddy code, airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive;
  4. Box tickers, who create the appearance that something useful is being done when it is not, e.g., survey administrators, in-house magazine journalists, corporate compliance officers;
  5. Taskmasters, who create extra work for those who do not need it, e.g., middle management, leadership professionals.[3][2]
Graeber argues that these jobs are largely in the private sector despite the idea that market competition would root out such inefficiencies. In companies, he concludes that the rise of service sector jobs owes less to economic need than to "managerial feudalism", in which employers need underlings in order to feel important and maintain competitive status and power.[2][3] In society, he credits the Puritan-capitalist work ethic for making the labor of capitalism into religious duty: that workers did not reap advances in productivity as a reduced workday because, as a societal norm, they believe that work determines their self-worth, even as they find that work pointless. Graeber describes this cycle as "profound psychological violence"[3] and "a scar across our collective soul".[4] Graeber suggests that one of the challenges to confronting our feelings about bullshit jobs is a lack of a behavioral script in much the same way that people are unsure of how to feel if they are the object of unrequited love. In turn, rather than correcting this system, Graeber writes, individuals attack those whose jobs are innately fulfilling.[4]
Graeber holds that work as a source of virtue is a recent idea, that work was disdained by the aristocracy in classical times, but inverted as virtuous through then-radical philosophers like John Locke. The Puritan idea of virtue through suffering justified the toil of the working classes as noble.[3] And so, Graeber continues, bullshit jobs justify contemporary patterns of living: that the pains of dull work are suitable justification for the ability to fulfill consumer desires, and that fulfilling those desires is indeed the reward for suffering through pointless work. Accordingly, over time, the prosperity extracted from technological advances has been reinvested into industry and consumer growth for its own sake rather than the purchase of additional leisure time from work.[2] Bullshit jobs also serve political ends, in which political parties are more concerned about having jobs than whether the jobs are fulfilling. In addition, he contends, populations occupied with busy work have less time to revolt.[4]
As a potential solution, Graeber suggests universal basic income, a livable benefit paid to all, without qualification, which would let people work at their leisure.[3] The author credits a natural human work cycle of cramming and slacking as the most productive way to work, as farmers, fishers, warriors, and novelists vary in the rigor of work based on the need for productivity, not the standard working hours, which can appear arbitrary when compared to cycles of productivity. Graeber contends that time not spent pursuing pointless work could instead be spent pursuing creative activities.[2]
If you want to read the rest, go to
Bullshit Jobs Wikipedia
I'm a fan of David Graeber's work; too bad he's no longer with us.
 

ttystikk

Nerd Gone Vertical
Neat article but I disagree with this one point. You have this division of labor because you have people with "puritan?" work ethic? Sorry no. You have people WITH work ethic and those without.
I think you missed David's point; the narrative is about the glory/duty/sacred status of "work" rather than having the focus be on the results of that effort. The myth is there to sucker people into thinking they're "supposed to work" when those in our society who make the most money most certainly do not work in the traditional sense...

Which leads me to my second point; you said something about how it took the Internet to create a class of people who make vast amounts of money while not being productive. This is just plain false; the ownership/capital class existed long before the Internet- and then there are finance people, who are the living definition of useless earners.

Finally, you use some pretty tired talking points to bash on unions. Clearly, workplace history was not a topic you were exposed to during your education (not a surprise, considering who controls school curricula these days) and so it appears that you may have missed the enormous benefits unions brought to the workplace, including living wages, a safe place to work, decent hours and benefits. These were the foundation of America's middle class growth through the 1970s and when unions were seriously curtailed starting with the Reagan "Revolution" we saw an explosion of wealth and income inquiry that has led America to the place we are today.

I agree that we have serious problems. I don't agree that forcing people to work for starvation wages in dangerous work environments is the way forward.
 

ttystikk

Nerd Gone Vertical
What blows my mind is that most of these idiots giving advice have absolutely zero gardening experience. They've grown weed, nothing else, and they somehow think they are experts who others should listen to.
Dunning-Kruger syndrome; these people know so little that they THINK there's nothing to it, AKA the arrogance of ignorance.
 
D

Deleted member 60

Guest
Posting this here, because I need to vent, and felt like this was a good place for it. I'm arguing with some idiot on Reddit who is telling a new grower that they need to throw out an entire outdoor plant because they found mold in a single cola. This idiot is saying that "Every expert grower recommends this" and "Once mold develops on the plant the plant is covered in spores and the rest of the plant will mold". When I corrected him and told him that mold spores are all over healthy plants, too, and that we dry and store our flower in controlled environments to prevent those spores from germinating, he told me to stop spreading "uneducated" information to new growers. So I look at the guys profile and he's currently in the middle of his second grow.
LOL....he'll have a podcast as soon as he gets himself a black hat and a weed t-Shirt. It isn't worth arguing with 'em. It's on the reader to research his shit well enough so he isn't dealing with Fucktards and their noob fuckery.
 

ttystikk

Nerd Gone Vertical
LOL....he'll have a podcast as soon as he gets himself a black hat and a weed t-Shirt. It isn't worth arguing with 'em. It's on the reader to research his shit well enough so he isn't dealing with Fucktards and their noob fuckery.
Tell us how you REALLY feel! Lol

I still get people arguing with me about the basics of dry nutrient salts and other growing fundamentals. Drives me nuts.

The triumph of hype over substance.
 

Fiddler's Green

Just a regular vato
Posting this here, because I need to vent, and felt like this was a good place for it. I'm arguing with some idiot on Reddit who is telling a new grower that they need to throw out an entire outdoor plant because they found mold in a single cola. This idiot is saying that "Every expert grower recommends this" and "Once mold develops on the plant the plant is covered in spores and the rest of the plant will mold". When I corrected him and told him that mold spores are all over healthy plants, too, and that we dry and store our flower in controlled environments to prevent those spores from germinating, he told me to stop spreading "uneducated" information to new growers. So I look at the guys profile and he's currently in the middle of his second grow.
I remember when I was rich and knew everything.
 

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
I agree that we have serious problems. I don't agree that forcing people to work for starvation wages in dangerous work environments is the way forward.
There was a time in history where 10yo kids were working 16 hour days in the factory and there were no safety standards. Unions HAD a purpose. Like with the March of Dimes - they were started to fun a cure/vaccine for polio. It was found. The company now has people with no purpose in life. They just picked another disease and kept right on collecting cash for decades. Just because something was useful once does not mean it will always be useful. Ask your wife LOL

My point on the interned IS valid. No the plantation owner did not pick cotton. But via means that were acceptable at the time he provided cotton. There was an end byproduct that was sought by the world that made them rich. Some people build hotels and employ millions of those people in those low wage jobs. You want to eat off clean dishes? Someone has to wash them - or clear the table. There were internet start-up companies that sold ideas - and nothing more. Never anything but some dude with a scam and the fact that no one really knew what the internet was when it started.

The world needs ditch-diggers. There are people that will never get past the hand-to-mouth, paycheck-to-paycheck, renting an apartment until they die life. There are people that cannot put up with current bullshit for future reward, like retirement with benefits after a suck ass job working for the man for decades. Human nature has changed with regard to what is socially acceptable and shaming a loser is no longer acceptable. THAT is a major component.
 

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
The other thing about "starvation wages" is that it is VERY subjective. there are parts of the country where you can pay every bill you have and buy groceries, where in other places that won't pay the rent.
 
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