Reversing males

Oreguhnism

Oreguhnism

Really Active Member
Anyone reverse their males for shits n giggles. Can a reversed male show any female traits that are worth a poop?

Really curious about exploring two Afgan leaners, Deep chunk and NL. Im gettting ready to make some STS seeds on females, but I still have seed stock with dads genepool....thank you!
 
macsnax

macsnax

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I've been looking into this myself. Sounds like some will reverse and have a lil bud development and some don't. It also sounds like a good way to weed out males that are actually females. What do you know about sprays to use? The only thing I know of is a product that inhibits fruit trees from flowering. There's gotta be a better mix to make, at least i would think.
 
macsnax

macsnax

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Bodyne said:
that florel is what ive heard of, Ive also heard it will sterilize the male a lot of times when you reverse him. Just from what Ive read.
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Ya florel is the product I know of too. I didn't know that it would sterilize the male, probably best to use a cutting of you want future use from him, lol. I hope we can get some more info going here. I know archive reverses females quite a bit. I messaged him a few months ago with no response. Maybe didn't want to give out his secrets, idk.
 
B

Bodyne

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yea but I don't think it works the same, like as in you reverse a female, you get all female seeds, I don't believe it works that way with males, I think that's why they say you need to go thru a big number of males to find the true male, not a hermie prone, and backcross it. I see where that florel is used on maters, but its also a pgr and its got some warnings on its sheet that makes me leary, although you wouldn't be smokin the males prolly. But apparently when you reverse males, you get a known terp profile, than just wondering and hoping.
 
macsnax

macsnax

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Bodyne said:
yea but I don't think it works the same, like as in you reverse a female, you get all female seeds, I don't believe it works that way with males, I think that's why they say you need to go thru a big number of males to find the true male, not a hermie prone, and backcross it. I see where that florel is used on maters, but its also a pgr and its got some warnings on its sheet that makes me leary, although you wouldn't be smokin the males prolly. But apparently when you reverse males, you get a known terp profile, than just wondering and hoping.
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Right, I've been thinking about giving it a go. I wish there was a little more info out there on it. Like when and how often to spray, etc. You know any of this type stuff? Any articles with checking out?
 
Vee

Vee

Ancient Member
Oreguhnism said:
Anyone reverse their males for shits n giggles. Can a reversed male show any female traits that are worth a poop?

Really curious about exploring two Afgan leaners, Deep chunk and NL. Im gettting ready to make some STS seeds on females, but I still have seed stock with dads genepool....thank you!
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This is gonna be real difficult as in most cases growers/breeders are suppressing the female hormone
and triggering a female flower to mutate suppressing the ethylene emitted

doing the same with a male will result in sterilzation

good luck
 
B

Bodyne

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Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen arising even from fruits. Stopping the application of growth regulators caused the plants to revert to their original sex. We hypothesized that in Cannabis, GA and ethylene act as male and female hormones respectively, and that the expression of sex is controlled by a balance between their endogenous levels. Abscisic acid (ABA) is able to overcome the GA induced male flower formation (Mohan Ram and Jaiswal 1973; Mohan Ram and Sett 1985).

Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R 1985 Cannabis sativa; in CRC
handbook of flowering (ed. Halevy A H) (Boca Raton: CRC
Press) Vol. II, pp 131–139

Mohan Ram H Y and Jaiswal V S 1973 The possible role of
ethylene and gibberellins in flower sex expression of Canna-
bis sativa; in Proceedings of 8th International Conference on
Plant Growth Substances (Tokyo: Hirokawa Publishing Co)
pp 987–996172


Although many environmental groups worry about toxicity resulting from use of growth hormones and fertilizers, the toxicity of ethephon is actually very low, and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene.
 
Vee

Vee

Ancient Member
Bodyne said:
Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen arising even from fruits. Stopping the application of growth regulators caused the plants to revert to their original sex. We hypothesized that in Cannabis, GA and ethylene act as male and female hormones respectively, and that the expression of sex is controlled by a balance between their endogenous levels. Abscisic acid (ABA) is able to overcome the GA induced male flower formation (Mohan Ram and Jaiswal 1973; Mohan Ram and Sett 1985).

Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R 1985 Cannabis sativa; in CRC
handbook of flowering (ed. Halevy A H) (Boca Raton: CRC
Press) Vol. II, pp 131–139

Mohan Ram H Y and Jaiswal V S 1973 The possible role of
ethylene and gibberellins in flower sex expression of Canna-
bis sativa; in Proceedings of 8th International Conference on
Plant Growth Substances (Tokyo: Hirokawa Publishing Co)
pp 987–996172


Although many environmental groups worry about toxicity resulting from use of growth hormones and fertilizers, the toxicity of ethephon is actually very low, and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene.
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I can only assum Ga = Gibberellic acid please let me have it in Russian so I can understand

and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene.
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the very same ethylene we are trying to suppress

tx
 
Oreguhnism

Oreguhnism

Really Active Member
Hey all thanks for the responses....very enlightening and some of the same thoughts I have had as well......
Bodyne said:
Fertile female flowers can be induced in male plants by ethephon (2-chloroethanephosphonic acid) and NIA 10637 (ethylhydrogen-l-propylphosphonate). Interestingly, stamens could be seen arising even from fruits. Stopping the application of growth regulators caused the plants to revert to their original sex. We hypothesized that in Cannabis, GA and ethylene act as male and female hormones respectively, and that the expression of sex is controlled by a balance between their endogenous levels. Abscisic acid (ABA) is able to overcome the GA induced male flower formation (Mohan Ram and Jaiswal 1973; Mohan Ram and Sett 1985).

Mohan Ram H Y and Sett R 1985 Cannabis sativa; in CRC
handbook of flowering (ed. Halevy A H) (Boca Raton: CRC
Press) Vol. II, pp 131–139

Mohan Ram H Y and Jaiswal V S 1973 The possible role of
ethylene and gibberellins in flower sex expression of Canna-
bis sativa; in Proceedings of 8th International Conference on
Plant Growth Substances (Tokyo: Hirokawa Publishing Co)
pp 987–996172


Although many environmental groups worry about toxicity resulting from use of growth hormones and fertilizers, the toxicity of ethephon is actually very low, and any ethephon used on the plant material is converted very quickly to ethylene.
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Thank you, I was going to post the Mohan Ram paper from 1973. I also have another interesting paper from Ram And Rina Sett 1982
Reversal of Ethephon-Induced Feminization of Cannabis Sativa by Ethylene antagonists.

H. Y. MOHANRAMand RINA SETT
Department of Botany, University of Delhi, Delhi 110007, India Received January 4,1982· Accepted April 25, 1982
Summary
Interaction between ethephon and the two ethylene antagonists - silver nitrate and cobalt chloride - applied exogenously to the male Cannabis sativa plants was studied. The feminiza- tion effect caused by two sprays of 960 mg .1-1 of ethephon could be overcome by 100 J.'g of AgN0 3 or CoCh. However, neither of the antagonists could suppress the feminization effect of 1920 mg .1-1 of ethephon sprayed twice.


macsnax said:
I've been looking into this myself. Sounds like some will reverse and have a lil bud development and some don't. It also sounds like a good way to weed out males that are actually females. What do you know about sprays to use? The only thing I know of is a product that inhibits fruit trees from flowering. There's gotta be a better mix to make, at least i would think.
Click to expand...

Just putting this first comment here that 3.9% Ethephon is the active ingedient of Florel, just for reference....[dont know if it was mentioned?], not that its specifically directed at you @macsnax , but the list below is.....


Here is what I had listed earlier today before posting:

Not necessarily mixes but active ingredients.....


ethephon
Triacontanol
GA
Cytokinons
1-methylcyclopropylene
Cobalt chloride

The NIA 10637 is new to me!
 
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macsnax

macsnax

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Riu brotha, haven't seen you around there for some time either though. Idk what to think about where we're headed anymore. We have companies like phylos (Monsanto) trying to steal our genetics, scammers out the ass, and some people trying to do it right. I guess all we can do is our part to better this plant.
 
Vee

Vee

Ancient Member
macsnax said:
Riu brotha, haven't seen you around there for some time either though. Idk what to think about where we're headed anymore. We have companies like phylos (Monsanto) trying to steal our genetics, scammers out the ass, and some people trying to do it right. I guess all we can do is our part to better this plant.
Click to expand...
Yeah Man that RIU freaked me out not one Russian Uniform(RIU) in all those threads ...lololololol
don't worry man we are stealing theirs ..lol
 
B

Boybelue

Super Active Member
This is interesting as I thought about starting a thread on male selection. I know I've heard breeders talk about reversing males to see the trich production. I heard some breeder talking about this just recently and I'm wanting to say it was JJ Edwards but I'm not positive. I also heard it mentioned on one of Adam's shows. I have a hard time with male selection because I dont have the best nose. While this want help with that, coupled with structure and yield of male flowers, the reversal for trich production will make male selection much easier.
 
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