Cannabis Nurseries

[PuffTheMagic]

As amateur and aspiring pro breeders, what are your thoughts on cannabis nurseries? I know breeders can easily make money by selling seeds, but lets be honest, we are all cannabis nerds here. In the real life, I can't give away seeds, no one wants them. People only seem to be interested in clones (i.e. a pre-vegged female plant). Especially once weed is decriminalized nationally and growing outdoor is more common, I can see cannabis nurseries being very popular. Of course they could sell clones year round for indoor growers, but I could see every spring soccer moms looking to pick up a few autos for their back porch, or a heavy smoker looking for a few larger pre-vegged plants of their favorite strain. From a legal standpoint, as soon as I can I am going to get a nursery license just so that I can have a massive amount of immature plants for my own breeding. However, the ultimate goal would be to monetize the operation. So, if a nursery were to offer other breeders strains, what would be a good compensation model? What else is there to consider here (from a community perspective, not legal)?

 

[treefarmercharlie]

Didn't the feds just clarify that they don't consider clones or seeds as being weed because they have <0.3% THC at that stage? If that is the case then I think that just leaves it up to the states to decide how they handle the sale of clones and seeds.

 

[GrowsomethingBill]

Maybe consider supplemental lighting in late summer early fall to keep plants from flowering. That’s my 2cents

 

[Fiddler's Green]

Pricing would be interesting, since seeds range from $5-$20 on average plus the cost of consumables (plugs, soil, containers...), power and time. Not to mention the cost of licensing to be "allowed" to grow X amount. Sourcing certified cuts (mo' money).

It seems like it could be lucrative if allowed to operate independently but we all know that it won't work out that way.

 

[PuffTheMagic]

Didn't the feds just clarify that they don't consider clones or seeds as being weed because they have <0.3% THC at that stage?

I'm not worried about the fed laws, that has to do more with interstate commerce. I was thinking more about state plant limits where the nursery would actually be located. Some make no distinction about maturity, some do. Regardless, without some sort of license the limits are pretty low and make legal breeding practical.

Pricing would be interesting, since seeds range from $5-$20 on average plus the cost of consumables (plugs, soil, containers...), power and time.

5-20 dollars for seeds? Thats per seed right? Cause on ILGM their fem packs are like 80-120 for 5.

I am looking at this from the perspective of a current black market weed smoker that for whatever reason is currently afraid to grow their own. They are gonna look to offset their weekly/monthly purchases. Lets use a heavy smoker for an example... an oz a week. Thats about a qp a month or 3lbs a year. An ounce a week smoker is probably buying QPs... around there they are like 700-800 on the black market which over the course of the year is over $8k (sickening to think about, hahaha). I think there is a HUGE potential profit margin here.

Not to mention the cost of licensing to be "allowed" to grow X amount.

In NYS, the proposed license cost for a nursery (and they do have language for this in their bill believe it or not) is fairly trivial (200-1000 a year if I recall correctly).

 

[H.A.F.]

Anything that is relegated to the "farmers market' mentality is fine. The price of a clone would probably be dictated by the price of weed.

If you count on the clone just being a grow and not an investment (big difference in your proposed market) it would be exactly like buying the Bonnie tomato plant that you plant and grow for one season, get your fruit and move on. Those were about $3 last year, about $5 this year. The price for happy weed plants would likely be twice to three times a tomato price but not that much more in that scenario.

That means you would have to be on a Bonnie Plants scale at least in your area, and they grow from seed. There would need to be warehouses of mothers full of pythium and every other pathogen you can imagine, and it would all be coming to your grow tent. Getting a clone from another respected grower is still iffy as fuck. You can keep dispensary/nursery clones.

I would lean more towards seeds being the future. The goal needs to be breeders that can generate consistent seedstock that will be as uniform sitting in a tray of 3" pots as the Beefsteaks are. And there are differences in the 'maters so it's doable.

Rooted auto's in their final pot would be something to consider.

 

[H.A.F.]

Any regulation is wrong. The states that are now doing it 'more right' are those without the communist governments like Oklahoma.

People in Kalifornistan got mad when the medical program basically folded after the passage of "rec-legal". The people that dumped their hard-earned money into the GOVERNMENT for licensing, inspections, fees, bribes, etc. now had to re-invest in a whole new set of profiteering regulations by the gubmint. Not to mention any new compliance issues, daily changing of labelling requirements, and whatever else they can pork-barrel into the next legislative session. And I believe recreational users can still land in the pokey for non-compliance.

Budweiser weed will free the country. Regulate it like beer. Tax it like beer. Sell it like beer. Hold convenience stores accountable like you already do for selling beer to minors (oh the children...). If you want to brew your own beer at home that's fine. If you want to sell a sixer to the neighbor that's fine. If you want to mass produce beer in your garage and sell it on the market you'll have some compliance requirements.

And no matter what the craft industry (us) does there will always be a market for the Budweiser.

 

[H.A.F.]

Some state governments see EVERY new industry as a potential tax-revenue source for their vote-buying (social welfare) programs.

 

[H.A.F.]

Rather than realizing the jobs that will be produced, and the taxes (with growth) available from each and every new member of the industry that is working, buying supplies, paying employees etc. Regular state tax revenue from income and sales taxes will grow exponentially without doing a thing with regulations.

 

[H.A.F.]

Ahhhhh, but you can't skim off the top when it goes right to the state IRS. No one benefits from that except the people that live in the state, not the politicians that pretend to be the rulers of those people. The more middlemen the more opportunities for scams, favors and profit.

 

[Deleted member 60]

I am looking at this from the perspective of a current black market weed smoker that for whatever reason is currently afraid to grow their own. They are gonna look to offset their weekly/monthly purchases.

I have heard of "Clone stores" in the cities here in Colorado (ok..all but Colorado Springs where it is all prohibited) but on the whole the dispensaries don't take part in much regarding/surrounding growing....like selling clones or seed. Such sales cut into their profits. It's now all about profits. they don' want to offset costs. they wanna sell you $15 a g bud

 

[Deleted member 60]

The "industry" of cannabis (licensed and legal sales) ONLY passed here/is allowed here in Colorado because it is a tax generating enitity.

 

[PuffTheMagic]

@H.A.F. you make a lot of good points, I have a ton

I have heard of "Clone stores" in the cities here in Colorado (ok..all but Colorado Springs where it is all prohibited) but on the whole the dispensaries don't take part in much regarding/surrounding growing....like selling clones or seed. Such sales cut into their profits. It's now all about profits. they don' want to offset costs. they wanna sell you $15 a g bud

Yeah dispensaries selling clones is sorta counter productive for them. This is why I am actually very please/surprised NY has verbiage for the nurseries in its bill. PA also has a few potential bills that include provisions for nurseries.

 

[Deleted member 60]

There isn't any restriction here on these types of sales......other than via those making the $......so don't hold your breathe even if the law allows it.

 

[PuffTheMagic]

There isn't any restriction here on these types of sales....

Again, I bring up the nursery laws because they lift the limits on immature plants, has nothing to do with selling per se.

 

[H.A.F.]

@H.A.F. you make a lot of good points

From a purely scientific standpoint with no government consideration, I think you would have to try the lot and see what sells. Might be different things to different groups like you mentioned. I think pre-set autos like the larger tomato plants at the nursery would be a seller. Like the 2-3g pots that already had a flimsy-ass plastic cage around the plant. Different prices for different size/age autos. You may end up with them flowering in the store though and if they don't get bought you are eventually hanging flowers... That's why you need the farmers market mentality.

Selling seedlings instead of clones still seems more viable as a business model that is scalable. I also see that as being a better model than packs of seeds in the nursery environment. You as the nursery already ate that 5% non-germination percentage since no one is buying an empty pot.

Fems beans would definitely work, but even regs in case people want to breed. If you only have stuff in veg preflowers shouldn't matter much. You can sell the fems in one color pot, unknown regs in another color, and males that have shown in a third. If someone gets a girl who's pre-flowers caught pollen from a boy that pre-flowered, that would be more like a free pack of seeds with the purchase rather than an impregnated girl since she's still in veg.

The beans could either be from a breeder that cuts you a deal for bulk, or you breed your own. But then you get into fems that don't reverse or pollenate well and the pricing fluctuations that "should" go with that but won't. Better to have a good, reliable source for mass quantities of beans unless that is just your jam.

 

[H.A.F.]

If you have plants you know are popular then you could get into selling plants that are already trained/topped/whatever also at different price points.

A teenager with a few nodes from seed might go for $ while an 8-top manifold or a pre-netted scrog would go for $$$. Sell it in a small earth-box ready to go.

 

[H.A.F.]

You get @Heisenbeans to sell you his bulk seconds that didn't make it through the sorter but if they germinate they're fine.

But basically, I think going the seed route and advertising the up-sides vs clones would be better long term either small scale or scaled up. A minimum wage monkey can plant a bean. Taking clones in bulk would take experience, training, cleanliness over and above what's required dropping beans, experts maintaining the moms the clones come from, etc.

 

[PuffTheMagic]

@H.A.F. I meant to say, you make a lot of good points, I have a shit ton to reply to but not sure what order to reply in now, haha.

 

[PuffTheMagic]

I know there are people here in the north east that have been growing outdoors for years and probably have some genetics that absolutely thrive, but in general, most of the seeds on the market are selected for growing indoors under HPS and once brought outdoors do not grow the same. Even strains that thrive in one region outdoors don't grow the same in other regions. I feel like for every new state that goes legal, there is going to be like a decade of breeding before that region is producing killer bud. It would be cool to see cooperation between a group of breeders in a similar region to sifting and culling phenos to dial in a regional IBL. Then regional growers can form appellations of origin (similar to the wine industry) as a stamp of quality/authenticity.