Making dabs by evaporation of alcohol w/o HEAT
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TerpyTyrone
LED Recruiter
Will this work?
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ChiefRunningPhist
Drunk on Knowledge
Ime the heatless purge resulted in a harder end product, whereas the more heat used during the purge resulted in a more runny oil type of an end product. If I kept under 105°F-ish (using a back therapeutic heating pad) I got shatter, and if I purged in a double boiler I got more of a runny oil.
Might just have been the strain ect, just something I took note of. I use a $10 infrared temp gun to measure.
Might just have been the strain ect, just something I took note of. I use a $10 infrared temp gun to measure.
Last edited:
ChiefRunningPhist
Drunk on Knowledge
Says crude cannabis extract has similar solubility to thc9...
Fixed Oils:
Idk what the solubility for cannibinoids in coconut oil, or olive oil is, but I'd assume it is similar to that of sesame oil which is listed at 0.3g per ml, or..
Known:
236ml per 1cup
Solve:
(236.58ml/cup) × (0.3g THC/ml oil)
=
70.974g/cup; 1 cup of sesame oil can take up to ~71g of extract, or ~71g of cannibinoids can fit into 1 cup of sesame oil, 72g of cannibinoids is 1g of cannibinoids too many, so 1g of cannibinoids won't dissolve into the sesame oil. If sesame oil is similar to coconut oil or EV olive oil, or margarine, butter, ect, then you probably don't want to try to dissolve more than 60g/cup to be in the safe side. We're assuming ~71g/cup is actual saturation, but Id shoot for no more than 60g/cup to be safe. That's for fixed oils ect. Alcohol is different.
Alcohol:
It says that ethanol (everclear) can take over 1g of cannibinoids per ml, but I'd just assume 1:1 like it also says. This means you can add 3x as much cannibinoids to ethanol before it's saturated compared to a fixed oil.
(236.58ml/cup) × (1g THC/1ml ETOH)
=
236.58g/cup ETOH; 8.3oz of cannibinoids (not 8.3oz of bud, 8.3oz of cannibinoids), before 1 cup of ethanol is finally saturated with cannibinoids.
Some thoughts:
Ethanol (ETOH), evaporates in the oven when you bake so the only thing left behind are the cannibinoids. Fixed oils obviously stick around during baking, but are good options imo as well. If you want a potent end product then you'd want to use ethanol because it can handle so many more cannibinoids before it becomes saturated.
What this means for solvent based concentration:
If you're ever wondering how much solvent is needed to fully dissolve the cannibinoids from your material, then this info is exactly what you need.
How much everclear:
Everclear is typically 190 proof, or 95% of the volume is ethanol and 5% is water. So in 1 cup of ethanol there's...
(236.58ml ETOH/cup) × (0.95)
=
224.75ml ETOH per cup of 190 proof everclear
Solubility of cannibinoids in ETOH is ~1g per 1ml, so 224.75g of cannibinoids (7.88oz) can fit inside 1 cup of 190 proof everclear (which happens to be equal to 224.75ml of ethanol and 11.83ml of H2O).
Estimate your potency...
Lets say you have 26% herb.
(224.75g cannibinoids/cup ETOH) × (1g bud/0.26g cannibinoids)
=
864.42g bud/cup ETOH; cannibinoids from 1.89lbs of 26% bud would be needed to fully saturate 1 cup of 190 proof everclear with cannibinoids.
Obviously the rate of dissolution decreases as the saturation increases, and you'd obviously want to use more than 1 cup of everclear for almost 2lbs of bud, but dissolving 224g cannibinoids in 224ml ETOH is chemically possible.
How much oil:
Lets say you had 26% bud and using a fixed oil with a cannibinoid saturation of 0.3g cannibinoids per 1ml oil, or ~71g of cannibinoids per 1 cup of oil.
(71g cannibinoids/1 cup oil) × (1g bud/0.26g cannibinoids)
=
273g of 26% bud/cup oil; cannibinoids from 9.58oz of 26% bud can completely dissolve in 1 cup of oil resulting in a saturated oil. Typically heat is involved when it comes to extracting cannibinoids via oil (butter ect) so in this case think the decreasing dissolution rate is less significant because the added heat is going to speed up the process anyways. If you are just adding some pre-made shatter or wax or whatever, then you will be limited to 71g of wax per cup of oil.
Method suggestions:
Personally I'd just soak the frozen material in a frozen jar, use frozen everclear, and let it soak for a cpl min in the freezer. Then strain it in the freezer (takes hours sometimes due to low viscosity, but it will stay cold the whole time, while if strained outside the freezer the solution has time to warm and pic up undesirables as it filters).
This way you're keep your max possible cannibinoid saturation % low which means any cannibinoids present will want to readily dissolve (which helps when temps are so low), but also keeping everything cold so that most water solubles are left behind. You want to get everything set up inside your freezer before you add your ethanol to soak. I put my diced material in a jar and let it freeze, and then set up the strain station, and then finally add the ETOH to the frozen jar containing the frozen diced material. Then let it soak for a cpl min with a slight swirl of the jar at the beginning. I use beer coozies and/or winter gloves to transfer the liquid and pour the contents of the jar into the strainer station so that the heat from my hands doesn't warm the solution. I also try to transfer as fast as I can to the strain station so that not much warm air comes into contact and warms the solution. It takes a while to strain and if you added 20°f to your freezer when you opened the door and let all the room temp air in, it will take some time for the freezer to get back down to really cold temps, and during this time period your solution could be picking up all sort of undesireables from the increase in temp. Cold temps are crucial. Then just purge using your preferred method, or evaporate it till you get the desired concentration you're after and then (label it with the concentration is a good idea) store for later use in recipes.
Summary cause, "god dammit! That's way too long!":
You can fit the cannibinoids from over a lbs worth of bud in 1 cup of everclear, and cannibinoids from over 0.5lbs of worth of bud in 1 cup of oil.
Also means you can fit ~70g of shatter/wax/ect into 1 cup of oil, and ~236g of shatter/wax/ect into 1 cup of 190 proof everclear.
The less saturated the solution the more it wants to pull cannibinoids away from the plant and dissolve them into the solution, so when using alcohol use at least equal volume alcohol to volume of buds and you'll never have to worry about slow dissolving times, and never have to worry about not pulling all your cannibinoids from the buds. Though this is just personal preference as you can see above that you'll never be in worry of saturating your ethanol realistically, though it just may take more runs ect to fully pull the cannibinoids from the material. I like doing 1 run and getting all the stuff and calling it good.
Keep the alcohol extraction process cold!
****
Don't ever make BHO in a freezer. Don't ever soak buds with butane in a freezer. The above is talking about ethanol and everclear, NOT butane. Don't ever make or strain BHO in a freezer. The vapors can ignite and explode. The amount of O2 and the different chemical properties that ethanol or isopropyl vapors have vs butane vapors makes these other substances much less worrisome, but butane vapors can ignite and explode and blow your fucking freezer door off or through your teeth/eyes/head when the fan kicks on and sparks, or when you open the door and the light bulb sparks, ect ect. Never use butane in enclosed areas! The above method suggestions are for ethanol only.
Fixed Oils:
Idk what the solubility for cannibinoids in coconut oil, or olive oil is, but I'd assume it is similar to that of sesame oil which is listed at 0.3g per ml, or..
Known:
236ml per 1cup
Solve:
(236.58ml/cup) × (0.3g THC/ml oil)
=
70.974g/cup; 1 cup of sesame oil can take up to ~71g of extract, or ~71g of cannibinoids can fit into 1 cup of sesame oil, 72g of cannibinoids is 1g of cannibinoids too many, so 1g of cannibinoids won't dissolve into the sesame oil. If sesame oil is similar to coconut oil or EV olive oil, or margarine, butter, ect, then you probably don't want to try to dissolve more than 60g/cup to be in the safe side. We're assuming ~71g/cup is actual saturation, but Id shoot for no more than 60g/cup to be safe. That's for fixed oils ect. Alcohol is different.
Alcohol:
It says that ethanol (everclear) can take over 1g of cannibinoids per ml, but I'd just assume 1:1 like it also says. This means you can add 3x as much cannibinoids to ethanol before it's saturated compared to a fixed oil.
(236.58ml/cup) × (1g THC/1ml ETOH)
=
236.58g/cup ETOH; 8.3oz of cannibinoids (not 8.3oz of bud, 8.3oz of cannibinoids), before 1 cup of ethanol is finally saturated with cannibinoids.
Some thoughts:
Ethanol (ETOH), evaporates in the oven when you bake so the only thing left behind are the cannibinoids. Fixed oils obviously stick around during baking, but are good options imo as well. If you want a potent end product then you'd want to use ethanol because it can handle so many more cannibinoids before it becomes saturated.
What this means for solvent based concentration:
If you're ever wondering how much solvent is needed to fully dissolve the cannibinoids from your material, then this info is exactly what you need.
How much everclear:
Everclear is typically 190 proof, or 95% of the volume is ethanol and 5% is water. So in 1 cup of ethanol there's...
(236.58ml ETOH/cup) × (0.95)
=
224.75ml ETOH per cup of 190 proof everclear
Solubility of cannibinoids in ETOH is ~1g per 1ml, so 224.75g of cannibinoids (7.88oz) can fit inside 1 cup of 190 proof everclear (which happens to be equal to 224.75ml of ethanol and 11.83ml of H2O).
Estimate your potency...
Lets say you have 26% herb.
(224.75g cannibinoids/cup ETOH) × (1g bud/0.26g cannibinoids)
=
864.42g bud/cup ETOH; cannibinoids from 1.89lbs of 26% bud would be needed to fully saturate 1 cup of 190 proof everclear with cannibinoids.
Obviously the rate of dissolution decreases as the saturation increases, and you'd obviously want to use more than 1 cup of everclear for almost 2lbs of bud, but dissolving 224g cannibinoids in 224ml ETOH is chemically possible.
How much oil:
Lets say you had 26% bud and using a fixed oil with a cannibinoid saturation of 0.3g cannibinoids per 1ml oil, or ~71g of cannibinoids per 1 cup of oil.
(71g cannibinoids/1 cup oil) × (1g bud/0.26g cannibinoids)
=
273g of 26% bud/cup oil; cannibinoids from 9.58oz of 26% bud can completely dissolve in 1 cup of oil resulting in a saturated oil. Typically heat is involved when it comes to extracting cannibinoids via oil (butter ect) so in this case think the decreasing dissolution rate is less significant because the added heat is going to speed up the process anyways. If you are just adding some pre-made shatter or wax or whatever, then you will be limited to 71g of wax per cup of oil.
Method suggestions:
Personally I'd just soak the frozen material in a frozen jar, use frozen everclear, and let it soak for a cpl min in the freezer. Then strain it in the freezer (takes hours sometimes due to low viscosity, but it will stay cold the whole time, while if strained outside the freezer the solution has time to warm and pic up undesirables as it filters).
This way you're keep your max possible cannibinoid saturation % low which means any cannibinoids present will want to readily dissolve (which helps when temps are so low), but also keeping everything cold so that most water solubles are left behind. You want to get everything set up inside your freezer before you add your ethanol to soak. I put my diced material in a jar and let it freeze, and then set up the strain station, and then finally add the ETOH to the frozen jar containing the frozen diced material. Then let it soak for a cpl min with a slight swirl of the jar at the beginning. I use beer coozies and/or winter gloves to transfer the liquid and pour the contents of the jar into the strainer station so that the heat from my hands doesn't warm the solution. I also try to transfer as fast as I can to the strain station so that not much warm air comes into contact and warms the solution. It takes a while to strain and if you added 20°f to your freezer when you opened the door and let all the room temp air in, it will take some time for the freezer to get back down to really cold temps, and during this time period your solution could be picking up all sort of undesireables from the increase in temp. Cold temps are crucial. Then just purge using your preferred method, or evaporate it till you get the desired concentration you're after and then (label it with the concentration is a good idea) store for later use in recipes.
Summary cause, "god dammit! That's way too long!":
You can fit the cannibinoids from over a lbs worth of bud in 1 cup of everclear, and cannibinoids from over 0.5lbs of worth of bud in 1 cup of oil.
Also means you can fit ~70g of shatter/wax/ect into 1 cup of oil, and ~236g of shatter/wax/ect into 1 cup of 190 proof everclear.
The less saturated the solution the more it wants to pull cannibinoids away from the plant and dissolve them into the solution, so when using alcohol use at least equal volume alcohol to volume of buds and you'll never have to worry about slow dissolving times, and never have to worry about not pulling all your cannibinoids from the buds. Though this is just personal preference as you can see above that you'll never be in worry of saturating your ethanol realistically, though it just may take more runs ect to fully pull the cannibinoids from the material. I like doing 1 run and getting all the stuff and calling it good.
Keep the alcohol extraction process cold!
****
Don't ever make BHO in a freezer. Don't ever soak buds with butane in a freezer. The above is talking about ethanol and everclear, NOT butane. Don't ever make or strain BHO in a freezer. The vapors can ignite and explode. The amount of O2 and the different chemical properties that ethanol or isopropyl vapors have vs butane vapors makes these other substances much less worrisome, but butane vapors can ignite and explode and blow your fucking freezer door off or through your teeth/eyes/head when the fan kicks on and sparks, or when you open the door and the light bulb sparks, ect ect. Never use butane in enclosed areas! The above method suggestions are for ethanol only.
Last edited:
ChiefRunningPhist
Drunk on Knowledge
You can dissolve any bullshit oil in hot hexane, and then continually wash with saturated saline and continually filter the layers that statify until it's pure. There's a nice write up on the skunkpharm website I'll see if i can post it.Here's an EC wash on weed and also spent rosin chips. Easy to slather on a doob.
These 2 were a shake quick wash, evaporating.
View attachment 82320View attachment 82319
Now this one is made from rosin chips. Quite a bit darker, but if there's a better reclaim for a rosin puck I'm all ears
View attachment 82321
"
To put this process into perspective, I once collected all of my pipe bowl scrapings and roaches until I had about a pint of them, and dumped that into the container of black denatured alcohol, that I had been cleaning my pipes in.
I shook the mixture well and let it soak for a day to extract the material from the roaches and scrapings, before straining it through a wire strainer and then a coffee filter.
Because I didn't want to mess up a separatory funnel with the black foul smelling mess, I poured the solution in a 1 gallon Ziploc bag, to which I added equal amounts of water and hexane.
After shaking it well, I hung it from one corner, to let it stratify, and after it had, I clipped off the lower corner of the Ziploc bag, and by pinching it, and controlling the bleed rate, I was able to bleed off the water, alcohol, and emulsion layer, so that only the now gold hexane solution remained.
I filtered the hexane and poured that into a Pyrex pie plate, which I blew air over with a fan to evaporate off. Attached are pictures of the amber oil that I extracted.
"
He is describing a slightly different method than what is posted at the beginning of this comment, but its almost the same process and the first method discussed in this post is the second (and preferred) method given in the full write up from the link posted. Check the link to get all the details. The pictures above are of his nasty roach-bong-alcohol-soup and how clean he was able to get it using the lesser performing of the 2 methods described.
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TerpyTyrone
LED Recruiter
My next question U covered. I may get 237grams into 1 cup.
But how do I "wash" 237 g in one cup.
I am with ya on the cold temps. @Gweedo buys dry ice and make little mini cooloers around his solution.
I wish I had a walk in freezer haha.
I know someone who does. He cuts deer for people and smokes dipe too. Yeeyee.
The Cons. Industry is full of all kinds of people. Some are nerds like me. I love yo read chiefs thoughts.
Man I missed this mofo.
Just when u think ur a pretty smart guy , ya meet a chief. -Ty
ChiefRunningPhist
Drunk on Knowledge
Ha thanks man but I'm just regurgitating what the experts say, or trying too
It'd take like 1.9lbs to get 237g, and you probably will be using a lot more than a cup of ethanol to "wash" 1.9lbs of material. So you're not trying to reuse the same cup over and over again (well maybe twice if that's your thing), no, you're just going to add all the seperate washes together in one big pot, from all the washes from the 1.9lbs of material, and then let it evaporate off till you get 1 cup of infused ethanol left.
The ethanol will become harder to evaporate as time goes by because the more ethanol that gets evaporated the thicker it gets and more viscous it becomes, and it traps the ethanol better, so tbh you might not be able to get 236g/cup without a vacuum, but you'll definitely be able to get more cannibinoids in ethanol than sesame oil.
Typically, "washing" means removing unwanted substances from a liquid using a solvent, but in our case the solutes are actually what we're after. You "wash" herb with solvent, and you can "wash" a nasty solution of roaches soaked in alcohol ect with saline. You're just adding an immiscible solvent to remove the "undesireables" but in our case were only after the "undesireables." Ha sounds like it should be a movie, "The Undesireables, coming to a theatre near you"..
You don't need a walk in freezer, you can use a kitchen freezer. But they are nice.
I like elk, moose, bison, or something big if I had a choice, but I eat a fair amount of venison jerky. Can eat anything if the jerky made right ha
Is the decarbed everclear mix better than not for tinc? I got some evaporating openly to smoke dabs, and some in freezer soaking, some say 3 hrs, some say 30 days, which is it? Ought to be good, dub ban dub, rum runner and runtz F2 lower and mostly smaller bugs, even with everclear, might be 
.
.
Old ST1R
Grow Yer Own Stone
You need to decarb for tincture.Is the decarbed everclear mix better than not for tinc? I got some evaporating openly to smoke dabs, and some in freezer soaking, some say 3 hrs, some say 30 days, which is it? Ought to be good, dub ban dub, rum runner and runtz F2 lower and mostly smaller bugs, even with everclear, might be
All sound good, except for the small bugs part. Yuck.
TerpyTyrone
LED Recruiter
Howd U pike the runtz?Is the decarbed everclear mix better than not for tinc? I got some evaporating openly to smoke dabs, and some in freezer soaking, some say 3 hrs, some say 30 days, which is it? Ought to be good, dub ban dub, rum runner and runtz F2 lower and mostly smaller bugs, even with everclear, might be
BigBallzWillie
BE THE BALL
That's all wonderful.....but there is little chance I am ever going to do all that stuff for that resultYou can dissolve any bullshit oil in hot hexane, and then continually wash with saturated saline and continually filter the layers that statify until it's pure. There's a nice write up on the skunkpharm website I'll see if i can post it.
View attachment 84744
"
To put this process into perspective, I once collected all of my pipe bowl scrapings and roaches until I had about a pint of them, and dumped that into the container of black denatured alcohol, that I had been cleaning my pipes in.
I shook the mixture well and let it soak for a day to extract the material from the roaches and scrapings, before straining it through a wire strainer and then a coffee filter.
Because I didn't want to mess up a separatory funnel with the black foul smelling mess, I poured the solution in a 1 gallon Ziploc bag, to which I added equal amounts of water and hexane.
After shaking it well, I hung it from one corner, to let it stratify, and after it had, I clipped off the lower corner of the Ziploc bag, and by pinching it, and controlling the bleed rate, I was able to bleed off the water, alcohol, and emulsion layer, so that only the now gold hexane solution remained.
I filtered the hexane and poured that into a Pyrex pie plate, which I blew air over with a fan to evaporate off. Attached are pictures of the amber oil that I extracted.
"
He is describing a slightly different method than what is posted at the beginning of this comment, but its almost the same process and the first method discussed in this post is the second (and preferred) method given in the full write up from the link posted. Check the link to get all the details. The pictures above are of his nasty roach-bong-alcohol-soup and how clean he was able to get it using the lesser performing of the 2 methods described.
No way.Green Dragon is done in 20 minutes with decarbed bud. I'm going to stay with that.
Unless the natural decarb experiment bears fruit.
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BigBallzWillie
BE THE BALL
If you're going to eat it, decarbed is better and quicker. You'll need to let it soak for 3 months if not decarbed and you plan on edibles with it. If you're gonna smoke it, it doesn't need decarbing. The open evap will give you a thick oil. If you keep the plant material in, it will be dark. The shine strips the thc in minutes from the material. If those jars you're saving in the freezer are more than a week old....you can remove the material and just keep the shine in the freezer. That stops the chlorophyll leaching.Is the decarbed everclear mix better than not for tinc? I got some evaporating openly to smoke dabs, and some in freezer soaking, some say 3 hrs, some say 30 days, which is it? Ought to be good, dub ban dub, rum runner and runtz F2 lower and mostly smaller bugs, even with everclear, might be
On an experiment I am doing elsewhere, I am trying to naturally decarb approx 3 oz weed in a pint, then filled with shine. I let that set with the weed for 15 days..then I took the weed out, put the infused shine in a half pint. Have you ever heard the discussion about "It;s not just the bling on the weed that matters" i.e. other things other than frost matter........anyway, that was the rationale for the 15 day soak, I wanted some other things too
I checked it once at 30 days and once at 60 days......you definitely get a buzz......but not as much as my decarbed and cooked tinc.I try it again on 4/6, that will be three months.......it may even be possible, it takes 4 months.
If it works...........it's pretty easy to do, easier than cooking it.
I get it, but what if I did the 50 sec everclear wash, then strained, like iso, but I already decarbed it all. I'm a lil amazed at how much I ended up with, but if it's not smokable, meh. The other jar in freezer everclear level is right under the weed line, I've swirled a couple times, still in freezer. How long would you wait to strain that one and then let some evap off?
BigBallzWillie
BE THE BALL
The 50 second wash with decarbed will be edible or smokable and fairly nice stuff.
On the other jar, if it's been soaking a week or two.......might as well take out the plant matl..remember to squeeze all the goodness out and then just keep the remaining tinc. That should be ready to sample.......then if it's not strong enough, let it evap some, repeat that until you like it.
I'm not sure which method it uses but he said the Everclear comes out perfectly clean when it is done and it can be reused.
BigBallzWillie
BE THE BALL
Those both look good!