Coronavirus

[JohnFonda]

I want to talk about our common responsibilities in the face of a common danger. The events of recent weeks may have helped to illuminate that challenge for some; but the dimensions of its threat have loomed large on the horizon for many years. Whatever our hopes may be for the future--for reducing this threat or living with it--there is no escaping either the gravity or the totality of its challenge to our survival and to our security--a challenge that confronts us in unaccustomed ways in every sphere of human activity.

This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President--two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for a far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy.

I

The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know.

But I do ask every publisher, every editor, and every newsman in the nation to reexamine his own standards, and to recognize the nature of our country's peril. In time of war, the government and the press have customarily joined in an effort based largely on self-discipline, to prevent unauthorized disclosures to the enemy. In time of "clear and present danger," the courts have held that even the privileged rights of the First Amendment must yield to the public's need for national security.

Today no war has been declared--and however fierce the struggle may be, it may never be declared in the traditional fashion. Our way of life is under attack. Those who make themselves our enemy are advancing around the globe. The survival of our friends is in danger. And yet no war has been declared, no borders have been crossed by marching troops, no missiles have been fired.

If the press is awaiting a declaration of war before it imposes the self-discipline of combat conditions, then I can only say that no war ever posed a greater threat to our security. If you are awaiting a finding of "clear and present danger," then I can only say that the danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent.

It requires a change in outlook, a change in tactics, a change in missions--by the government, by the people, by every businessman or labor leader, and by every newspaper. For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence--on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.
JFK
That's a really big can of worms to open but this should clarify a bit.

And is hella relevant to everything I've said and is going on right now.

 

[JohnFonda]

For awhile, I thought I was reading your HS freshman paper, and was impressed.

That's a good JFK speech, but has next to nothing to do with why he was killed.

What's your perspective on his death?

 

[JohnFonda]

I never cared about politics, but I cared on 9/11, and began paying attention to things that shape the world, the country, and ultimately my life and family's well being. At that point, I considered all points of view, and found that the only issue I could agree with the left on was weed decriminalization.

I read what you write, but agree with next to none of it. But if you could present something new or different, and showed it as based on sound and substantive constructs rather than your dissatisfaction with the status quo, I'd give it consideration. How's that?

Honestly alot of constructs I believe in are pulled from socialism. Basic socialism. Not Hitler socialism or whatever you all refer to that has no use of socialistic ideologies. Local production, management of production and wealth by the actual producers, fulfilling needs before wants, the elimination of top down mechanisms of control, free info/education. When/if i finish my book I'll send you a signed copy. I've enjoyed your discussions much more than others. Even your jabs, and light insults. They at least held humor or tastefull approach.

 

[Proud420]

Ok, I really need to get more work done so I'm going to bow out for now.

And I was hoping to get eye opening sources from you!

 

[treefarmercharlie]

And I was hoping to get eye opening sources from you!

With respect, I shouldn't have to prove anything to you. You should be researching and learning as much about this as you can, instead of expecting to be spoon fed information, in order to prove the information you were spoon fed by the MSM was wrong.

 

[Proud420]

With respect, I shouldn't have to prove anything to you. You should be researching and learning as much about this as you can, instead of expecting to be spoon fed information, in order to prove the information you were spoon fed by the MSM was wrong.

I guess you don't understand the principle of a discussion:
I give you my arguments consolidated with sources you do the same and then we discuss the flaws.

I gave you link from the CDC about contagiousness of asymptomatic sick people.
You replied : fake news / MSM talk... and expressed your own opinion that because you don't feel symptoms you think you can not contaminate.

Clearly the one taping out is yourself.

 

[Whip Eurass]

What's your perspective on his death?

Can't say with any certainty - who can with 100s of versions offered and nearly 60 years since the event. I'd definitely participate in a thread dedicated to the murder of JFK. I'm a JFK assassination junkie for decades having watched and read hundreds of opinions, theories, documentaries - anything related, I'm in.

The ones that made the most sense to me, and that I lean toward are those that portray it as a mob hit.

"According to some sources, Giancana and the Mafia were involved in John F. Kennedy's victory in the 1960 presidential election. During 1960s, he was recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in a plot to assassinate Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Conspiracy theorists consider Giancana along with Mafia leaders Santo Trafficante Jr. and Carlos Marcello associated with the assassination of Kennedy. "

The botched Bay of Pigs debacle infuriated Trifficante, Jr, who'd controlled many of the casinos in Cuba before Castro seized them. He provided much of the inside intelligence assuming he'd regain control when Fidel was offed.

Then, JFK's brother Bobby launched a much publicized push against organized crime, including the same figures like Giancana that had handed the union votes to JFK securing victory in a tight election.

Trifficante, Jr was quoted by his lawyer Frank Ragano as he lay close to death that the target should have been RFK.

"On January 14, 1992, Trafficante's former attorney, Frank Ragano, told Jack Newfield of the New York Post that he relayed a request from Hoffa to Trafficante and New Orleans boss Carlos Marcello to have Kennedy killed.[14] He repeated the claim two days later on ABC's Good Morning America,[15] in Newfield's Frontline report entitled JFK, Hoffa and Mob broadcast in November 1992,[16] and again in his 1994 autobiography Mob Lawyer.[17] According to Ragano, he met Hoffa at the Teamsters' headquarters in Washington, DC, then delivered the message to Trafficante and Marcello in a meeting at the Royal Orleans Hotel in New Orleans.[14][15] He stated he was chosen by Hoffa because, as both Hoffa and Trafficante's lawyer, he could be assured of attorney-client privilege.[14] "

 

[treefarmercharlie]

I guess you don't understand the principle of a discussion:
I give you my arguments consolidated with sources you do the same and then we discuss the flaws.

I gave you link from the CDC about contagiousness of asymptomatic sick people.
You replied : fake news / MSM talk... and expressed your own opinion that because you don't feel symptoms you think you can not contaminate.

Clearly the one taping out is yourself.

You're imagining things. Where did I say that the CDC link you posted was fake news or MSM? Go ahead and find that for me...I'll be here waiting for eternity. BTW, I also never said that, because someone can't feel symptoms, they can't contaminate. I said it has been said that asymptomatic people have been shown to not be a risk. The disconnect is that you seem to think that ANY risk is worth changing society over. I asked you what level of risk is acceptable to you and you refused to answer.

 

[Whip Eurass]

When/if i finish my book I'll send you a signed copy. I've enjoyed your discussions much more than others. Even your jabs, and light insults. They at least held humor or tastefull approach.

While I disagree with you most of the time, I find this post to be spot on.

 

[Punisher84]

You joined in the US?

Guessing yes.

Also guessing he was army sf, they did a lot of work in South America during the late 80’s and 90’s. May still be there. I know they were doing real world shit when there was no war going on.

I don’t know shit about the army.

 

[Proud420]

For this damn virus? yup - that is what the DATA shows.

Do you even read the fucking data? The CDC has also come out and said that those who are carriers who show no symptoms are now known to not spread the virus. This is why kids are such a low risk now.

You and @H.A.F. ... So I just would like to know where you get your data from to make my mind.

 

[JohnFonda]

Can't say with any certainty - who can with 100s of versions offered and nearly 60 years since the event. I'd definitely participate in a thread dedicated to the murder of JFK. I'm a JFK assassination junkie for decades having watched and read hundreds of opinions, theories, documentaries - anything related, I'm in.

The ones that made the most sense to me, and that I lean toward are those that portray it as a mob hit.

"According to some sources, Giancana and the Mafia were involved in John F. Kennedy's victory in the 1960 presidential election. During 1960s, he was recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in a plot to assassinate Cuban leader Fidel Castro. Conspiracy theorists consider Giancana along with Mafia leaders Santo Trafficante Jr. and Carlos Marcello associated with the assassination of Kennedy. "

The botched Bay of Pigs debacle infuriated Trifficante, Jr, who'd controlled many of the casinos in Cuba before Castro seized them. He provided much of the inside intelligence assuming he'd regain control when Fidel was offed.

Then, JFK's brother Bobby launched a much publicized push against organized crime, including the same figures like Giancana that had handed the union votes to JFK securing victory in a tight election.

Trifficante, Jr was quoted by his lawyer Frank Ragano as he lay close to death that the target should have been RFK.

"On January 14, 1992, Trafficante's former attorney, Frank Ragano, told Jack Newfield of the New York Post that he relayed a request from Hoffa to Trafficante and New Orleans boss Carlos Marcello to have Kennedy killed.[14] He repeated the claim two days later on ABC's Good Morning America,[15] in Newfield's Frontline report entitled JFK, Hoffa and Mob broadcast in November 1992,[16] and again in his 1994 autobiography Mob Lawyer.[17] According to Ragano, he met Hoffa at the Teamsters' headquarters in Washington, DC, then delivered the message to Trafficante and Marcello in a meeting at the Royal Orleans Hotel in New Orleans.[14][15] He stated he was chosen by Hoffa because, as both Hoffa and Trafficante's lawyer, he could be assured of attorney-client privilege.[14] "

I imagine they definetly played their part. If they were influenced and helped by other sources is a big question there for me though. The mobs power was pretty unreal but alot of things don't add up. Those Epstein style coincidences. I imagine it came top down from somewhere else. Perhaps a CIA agent met with the mob first etc. Spooks work like that. Like Americas war on drugs. Wonder how much profit they made dipping their fingers in the cocaine jar while simultaneously arresting the people they were working with.

 

[JohnFonda]

Guessing yes.

Also guessing he was army sf, they did a lot of work in South America during the late 80’s and 90’s. May still be there. I know they were doing real world shit when there was no war going on.

I don’t know shit about the army.

As a member yourself though I'm sure your aware you dont sign up with the intention of choosing where you are deployed . Leftist ? Looks like they forgot about the cartel. Oh wait never mind those are allies.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

You and @H.A.F. ... So I just would like to know where you get your data from to make my mind.

From the CDC, from epidemiologists who have written articles about this virus, and from an epidemiologist who has studied coronaviruses for years who says this virus isn't going away anytime soon. The issue I have is with all the misinformation and shutdowns. We can't survive with the type of shutdowns going on for as long as the virus is still a threat and pretenting certain ways of transmission are more of a threat than they are doesn't help anyone.

 

[treefarmercharlie]

As a member yourself though I'm sure your aware you dont sign up with the intention of choosing where you are deployed . Leftist ? Looks like they forgot about the cartel. Oh wait never mind those are allies.

And we also handed over our constitutional rights when we signed up. Sacrifice is a bitch, isn't it?

 

[Punisher84]

As a member yourself though I'm sure your aware you dont sign up with the intention of choosing where you are deployed . Leftist ? Looks like they forgot about the cartel. Oh wait never mind those are allies.

Jesus. You’re not real bright.

Never said I was in the army.
Where you go what you do is chosen when you enlist. You can change jobs through your service.

If you go in to be a computer guy then that what you do. If you want to be a pilot then you’re gonna go try to be a pilot. If you want to go into special operations then you do so to go shoot people in the face.

A lot of work in South America was training their military. US military cross trains with other militaries all over the world. We also do training all over the world.
I trained in New Zealand once.

 

[JohnFonda]

And we also handed over our constitutional rights when we signed up. Sacrifice is a bitch, isn't it?

? Once again completely off topic of the discussion. Homeboy says he signed up to kill columbian leftist. That's a pretty fucking specific reason to sign up. I mean what if he was sent to Venezuela. How upset he would have been.

 

[Whip Eurass]

From the CDC.......

"Since the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic, the CDC has been inexplicably absent, and Americans are suffering and dying for it.

The CDC has long been the steady, trusted source for high-quality national data and evidence-based guidance. But not this time, when its voice is needed the most."

We need the real CDC back, and we need it now

This must be a painful time for the many extraordinary career scientists who continue to work at the CDC. Real CDC leadership is absolutely essential for confronting and getting clear of this crisis.

www.statnews.com

 

[Punisher84]

I mean what if he was sent to Venezuela. How upset he would have been.

That would have been like getting 7 breadsticks in a pack of 6. Bonus!

 

[treefarmercharlie]

? Once again completely off topic of the discussion. Homeboy says he signed up to kill columbian leftist. That's a pretty fucking specific reason to sign up. I mean what if he was sent to Venezuela. How upset he would have been.

My comment was no more off topic than your inexperienced talk about the military.