BRO SCIENCE vs REAL SCIENCE

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
Doing the living soil stuff, the part about the microbes just going dormant from the pH adjusters and not dying is part of the story. They are dormant because you are doing their job. When you stop they won't immediately start back up, so now you have to pH everything or suffer a growth setback or some other issues. Same with salt nutes on a bigger scale. They are just working at cross purposes. One is you feeding the plant, one is the soil feeding the plant and the plant just taking what it needs out of the buffet.

Lots of good info, but you're right about remembering his goal.
 

treefarmercharlie

🍆
Admin
Haven’t watched it yet, but a lot of growers don’t seem to understand that when you grow in soil you aim to feed the soil life, and keep it happy, and that will take care of the plants. I’m honestly surprised by how many new growers go straight to salt based nutrients, myself included, because it is so easy to screw up and it’s an expensive way to grow. I can see why commercial grows go with them, and hydro, but soil grows are the way to go for a lot of people, IMO.
 

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
Haven’t watched it yet, but a lot of growers don’t seem to understand that when you grow in soil you aim to feed the soil life, and keep it happy, and that will take care of the plants. I’m honestly surprised by how many new growers go straight to salt based nutrients, myself included, because it is so easy to screw up and it’s an expensive way to grow. I can see why commercial grows go with them, and hydro, but soil grows are the way to go for a lot of people, IMO.
You can kill it with the nutes as long as you are on your game constantly or have a good system. But it's more like you are doing hydro with soil as a medium instead of coco or rockwool or something. You aren't counting on the microbes to do much, and they don't. Both systems work. The soil is just going to give you a longer wet period between waterings and wider range of what is acceptable as an input without worrying about pH.

There are a few big name dudes on the youtube and podcasts and stuff that grow with nutes for their mass production, but say they have an organic grow going for headstash.
 

NoWaistedSpace

PICK YOUR OWN
Doing the living soil stuff, the part about the microbes just going dormant from the pH adjusters and not dying is part of the story. They are dormant because you are doing their job. When you stop they won't immediately start back up, so now you have to pH everything or suffer a growth setback or some other issues. Same with salt nutes on a bigger scale. They are just working at cross purposes. One is you feeding the plant, one is the soil feeding the plant and the plant just taking what it needs out of the buffet.

Lots of good info, but you're right about remembering his goal.
I signed up for some free samples on his website. Lets see if he sends me any of his products.
 

m4s73r

The Laziest
I must be a fukin genius cause I didn't need a science degree to know not to add ph adjusters to soil grows . Something I have been telling people to stop doing for years.
This. People cant seem to get this through their heads.
Haven’t watched it yet, but a lot of growers don’t seem to understand that when you grow in soil you aim to feed the soil life, and keep it happy, and that will take care of the plants. I’m honestly surprised by how many new growers go straight to salt based nutrients, myself included, because it is so easy to screw up and it’s an expensive way to grow. I can see why commercial grows go with them, and hydro, but soil grows are the way to go for a lot of people, IMO.
Thats because the cannabis industry was/is ignored by the gardening community. You dont see gardeners doing some of this crazy shit. Every time I see some organic grower with their soil bare i just shake my head. Mulch people. Decomposing leaf matter is the missing step. Once I got mulching through my own thick head, the need for all this extra crap went away. Compost teas, sst, top dressings dry amendments, watering in mycos all that. Gone by mulching. This is why organic gardeners are able to plant in raised beds year after year. You wont see some gardener outside dumping bags of worm castings on their beds. Mulching is the way.

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treefarmercharlie

🍆
Admin
This. People cant seem to get this through their heads.

Thats because the cannabis industry was/is ignored by the gardening community. You dont see gardeners doing some of this crazy shit. Every time I see some organic grower with their soil bare i just shake my head. Mulch people. Decomposing leaf matter is the missing step. Once I got mulching through my own thick head, the need for all this extra crap went away. Compost teas, sst, top dressings dry amendments, watering in mycos all that. Gone by mulching. This is why organic gardeners are able to plant in raised beds year after year. You wont see some gardener outside dumping bags of worm castings on their beds. Mulching is the way.

View attachment 102138
The only issue I have with mulching is you need a decent layer of it for it to work properly and the smaller pots we grow in make that harder to accomplish. I should still do a mulch layer to help keep the top of the soil from getting dry though.
 

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
The only issue I have with mulching is you need a decent layer of it for it to work properly and the smaller pots we grow in make that harder to accomplish. I should still do a mulch layer to help keep the top of the soil from getting dry though.
There's also less cover crop, and like he said a lot dies off in the shade. I'm not seeing any issues on the second run in any pot, and I have tried a few methods to see what works.

I have some wth the mulch layer removed to add a layer of top dressing then new cover crop seeds and some of the old mulch, And I have one that still had cover crop on it and a I just stuck a new plant in a week after the old one came out.

But I am thinking that with 5g-7g pots dumping them and reammending in a larger pot seems themost efficient (if it works). The pots aren't that deep so shufling the deck shouldn't mess things up too bad. And it should sort itself out during the down time.
 

treefarmercharlie

🍆
Admin
There's also less cover crop, and like he said a lot dies off in the shade. I'm not seeing any issues on the second run in any pot, and I have tried a few methods to see what works.

I have some wth the mulch layer removed to add a layer of top dressing then new cover crop seeds and some of the old mulch, And I have one that still had cover crop on it and a I just stuck a new plant in a week after the old one came out.

But I am thinking that with 5g-7g pots dumping them and reammending in a larger pot seems themost efficient (if it works). The pots aren't that deep so shufling the deck shouldn't mess things up too bad. And it should sort itself out during the down time.
I’ve done cover crop a few times and it does a great job of keeping the top layer loose and from drying out. I grow in 7 or 10 gallon pots and, after each grow, I’ll break them down into a 40 gallon tote, amend and till it all up, get the moisture content to where it needs to be, and then cover it with plastic with holes poked in it and then it sits. I have enough soil to where each batch gets used for every other grow cycle.
 

NoWaistedSpace

PICK YOUR OWN
I’ve done cover crop a few times and it does a great job of keeping the top layer loose and from drying out. I grow in 7 or 10 gallon pots and, after each grow, I’ll break them down into a 40 gallon tote, amend and till it all up, get the moisture content to where it needs to be, and then cover it with plastic with holes poked in it and then it sits. I have enough soil to where each batch gets used for every other grow cycle.
The first 4" is the most important part of your food web. I picked up a bale of straw along the side of the road the other day. Woo hoo! I have a huge supply of clean cover for that top layer now. I've used dead pine needles for a cover in the past. Not really any benefit but holds moisture and eventually breaks down.
Remember, dry soil is dead soil. lol
 

NoWaistedSpace

PICK YOUR OWN
I have a garden sprayer with RO that I just wet the rice hulls with on no-water days. Not enough to effect the soil, just replacing the evap on top.
Those top layers stay moist and full of life.
If you got shade, it'll suck the moisture out of it.
Then it becomes a "shadow". Hahaha!
 

m4s73r

The Laziest
There's also less cover crop, and like he said a lot dies off in the shade. I'm not seeing any issues on the second run in any pot, and I have tried a few methods to see what works.

I have some with the mulch layer removed to add a layer of top dressing then new cover crop seeds and some of the old mulch, And I have one that still had cover crop on it and a I just stuck a new plant in a week after the old one came out.

But I am thinking that with 5g-7g pots dumping them and reamending in a larger pot seems the most efficient (if it works). The pots aren't that deep so shufling the deck shouldn't mess things up too bad. And it should sort itself out during the down time.
For 5-7 gallon pots your right. Dump, amend, and let all the sit together while you grow another round. Then your just swaping batches of soil. All soil gets 2-3 months to sit and charge up. As you add leaf matter from your harvest, top dressings ect, it may not be long and you'll find yourself with enough soil to do 10 gallons and have a little more buffer.

Another really cool top layer/mulch is "used oyster mushroom logs". If I didn't use clover as a living mulch id proly use mushroom logs. Eventually I will be getting a mushroom tent up and going. Once that happens I will proly mulch the mushroom leftovers into the beds and pump the co2 into the tents.

Edit: Also i shoud have said, theres also nothing wrong cutting out a circle cover out of panda film. Cut a slit to the middle, put it around the plant stalk and set it on the pot. That will cut the water evaporation by a LARGE amount.
 

Heisen

Dont Need One
Admin
The first 4" is the most important part of your food web. I picked up a bale of straw along the side of the road the other day. Woo hoo! I have a huge supply of clean cover for that top layer now. I've used dead pine needles for a cover in the past. Not really any benefit but holds moisture and eventually breaks down.
Remember, dry soil is dead soil. lol
Pine is the worst. Turns soil acidic. The best thing for organic guys is to start an outdoor compost pile and just mix it with your soil. Growing in pots there is not enough time to amend soil in a pot by putting stuff on top.
Grass clippings work the best. Just toss em in a bin and water every 4 days. Add some heat and that shit will cook into black dirt.
 

H.A.F.

a.k.a. Rusty Nails
For 5-7 gallon pots your right. Dump, amend, and let all the sit together while you grow another round. Then your just swaping batches of soil. All soil gets 2-3 months to sit and charge up. As you add leaf matter from your harvest, top dressings ect, it may not be long and you'll find yourself with enough soil to do 10 gallons and have a little more buffer.
If it works for 5g, I'm done. No goal of moving up pot sizes. I have a few 7g that I plan to use for 're-runs' of stuff I know I like and want a bigger plant of. Simple fact is that I have grown out 1-month-veg plants in 3 gallons consistently and had no rootbound issues. A 5g in the living soil should be plenty for one grow if I am dumping it after.

I am gradually getting soil volume from everything that gets added and mulched in. Eventually I'll just have more soil out of the rotation rather than having bigger pots.
 
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