Sourcing genetics and pheno hunting

Gweedo

PICK YOUR OWN
Ok question here for all you seed gurus, im about to source my parent strains for the 2 projects im wanting to start working on question 1 is, are my chances better of finding a decent strain going with european banks ie bc bud depot or one of the other well known banks, or going with the same strain from a us or canadian bank, a good bit of coin is gonna get dropped on this and id like to have any input at all to help steer the decision, the 4 main strains im looking for are hindu kush, lemon og, mendocino purple kush and white rhino. These all have stuck with me over the years and id like to work with them for that fact alone 2 i know this answer will vary but when phenohunting how many plants is considered safe to have worked out what shes going to produce, im not wanting to cut any corners but at the same time i cant afford to buy 4000 beans either, i know you all have a vast wealth of knowledge with this kinda stuff and any input is greatly appreciated.
 

thenotsoesoteric

Shinobi of seeds
Ok question here for all you seed gurus, im about to source my parent strains for the 2 projects im wanting to start working on question 1 is, are my chances better of finding a decent strain going with european banks ie bc bud depot or one of the other well known banks, or going with the same strain from a us or canadian bank, a good bit of coin is gonna get dropped on this and id like to have any input at all to help steer the decision, the 4 main strains im looking for are hindu kush, lemon og, mendocino purple kush and white rhino. These all have stuck with me over the years and id like to work with them for that fact alone 2 i know this answer will vary but when phenohunting how many plants is considered safe to have worked out what shes going to produce, im not wanting to cut any corners but at the same time i cant afford to buy 4000 beans either, i know you all have a vast wealth of knowledge with this kinda stuff and any input is greatly appreciated.
For mendo I'd search through CSI Humboldt gear and maybe even email with questions about his offerings with Mendo. He seems to have a lot of experience with it. For the other three European banks might be your best option. Perhaps bodhi or hazeman have hindu kush offerings but I'm not sure.

The lemon OG you could try cannaventure lvtk and hope for a lemon leaning tk pheno. It's a start any way.

Kudos and good luck on your mission.
 

Jewels

Bon~Fire
how many plants
Not intimate knowledge,,,some wise guy told me -"run 50,,divide intended sex, chose 4"


World strongest strains carried Lemon Larry pollen @ one time and a Thuderfudge has been up and down that path.
you all have
He seems to have a lot
I see the pattern.
This is the underground. Stay underground.

I say : use that search bar, the gold lies close to home, just keep hammering away with the PM's,,,somebody knows a guy , who knows a guy,,,,,
 
Any thoughts on the pheno hunting question i value you alls opinion way more than googles results lol ive seen your guys results 🖒🖒🖒
I'll be happy to throw in an opinion. I can develop a more thought out response by tomorrow morning, but could be more effective if you can give me an idea about what you'd like to accomplish with your 2 projects.
In general, what are you hoping to get from your final plants?
 

NoWaistedSpace

I'm Hoarding Skunk
Not intimate knowledge,,,some wise guy told me -"run 50,,divide intended sex, chose 4"


World strongest strains carried Lemon Larry pollen @ one time and a Thuderfudge has been up and down that path.



I see the pattern.
This is the underground. Stay underground.

I say : use that search bar, the gold lies close to home, just keep hammering away with the PM's,,,somebody knows a guy , who knows a guy,,,,,
Nah, I'm old and my seeds are old too which nobody wants. lol
You know, those stinking" soured manure" Skunks, and compact and short flowering Afghani's and Sativas from the 90's.
Personally, they are still my favorites. Not as genetically "watered down" as these newer strains. Mine lean toward quality of flower to smoke, not high resin for concentrates. The more you smoke, the higher you get. No ceiling.
 

Gweedo

PICK YOUR OWN
I'll be happy to throw in an opinion. I can develop a more thought out response by tomorrow morning, but could be more effective if you can give me an idea about what you'd like to accomplish with your 2 projects.
In general, what are you hoping to get from your final plants?
@Schwaggy P
Well both of these crosses im planning will be indica dominant, shooting for the average 8 to 9 wk flower times with them both,all the parents are mostly shorter grower /stretchers so wanting to keep that trait as well ie pretty easily manageable for a novice, my priorities in order for them are terps/flavor,high, then yield not looking to slay any thc records but every time ive smoked any of these strains the high was fantastic, thc levels be dammed😂😂😂 structure wise im wanting to shoot for pretty easy branchers like 1 or 2 toppings to get a decent multi cola plant (again aiming at novices like myself) no beanpoles lol
First go will be the lemon og x hindukush shooting for the above parameters with a mix of the lemon from the og and the earth/loam i remember so well from the hindu, also would like to up the resin/trichs of the lemon via the hindu i remember it being dam sticky. if the high comes out as planned should be a nice good long body high with full brain capacity, bit of course this is all theoretical vs what is gonna actually happen im sure.
The second planned cross will be the mendo x the rhino this one im shooting for a great sit down and chill relax and meltaway type high, i always get that earth from the mendo, and pine/sweet from the rhino when i could get them, if my palate isnt retarded and what i remember is there it should be pleasant. I know both of these planned ideas are based off my personal experience with the planned parents, and its a ton of probably impossible expectations but i have time lol and again these strains arent high thc producers and i know a ton of people are drawn to that in the market but ive never seen my circle not get blasted off any of the named parents flower.
So sorry for the long ass post theres a lot of shit flying around in my noggin with these plans, but the excitement of getting to dive in is a great feeling, its been a long ass time since my interest in something was this high, and im so greatful to the community for helping/motivating/and mentoring common ass people like myself to try such insanity 🖒🖒🖒 and huge thanks in advance to all those here that will surely help me out through this process
 
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@Schwaggy P
Well both of these crosses im planning will be indica dominant, shooting for the average 8 to 9 wk flower times with them both,all the parents are mostly shorter grower /stretchers so wanting to keep that trait as well ie pretty easily manageable for a novice, my priorities in order for them are terps/flavor,high, then yield not looking to slay any thc records but every time ive smoked any of these strains the high was fantastic, thc levels be dammed😂😂😂 structure wise im wanting to shoot for pretty easy branchers like 1 or 2 toppings to get a decent multi cola plant (again aiming at novices like myself) no beanpoles lol
First go will be the lemon og x hindukush shooting for the above parameters with a mix of the lemon from the og and the earth/loam i remember so well from the hindu, also would like to up the resin/trichs of the lemon via the hindu i remember it being dam sticky. if the high comes out as planned should be a nice good long body high with full brain capacity, bit of course this is all theoretical vs what is gonna actually happen im sure.
The second planned cross will be the mendo x the rhino this one im shooting for a great sit down and chill relax and meltaway type high, i always get that earth from the mendo, and pine/sweet from the rhino when i could get them, if my palate isnt retarded and what i remember is there it should be pleasant. I know both of these planned ideas are based off my personal experience with the planned parents, and its a ton of probably impossible expectations but i have time lol and again these strains arent high thc producers and i know a ton of people are drawn to that in the market but ive never seen my circle not get blasted off any of the named parents flower.
So sorry for the long ass post theres a lot of shit flying around in my noggin with these plans, but the excitement of getting to dive in is a great feeling, its been a long ass time since my interest in something was this high, and im so greatful to the community for helping/motivating/and mentoring common ass people like myself to try such insanity 🖒🖒🖒 and huge thanks in advance to all those here that will surely help me out through this process
Sounds like you’ve got a solid idea how you’d like to go about these projects. That’s great, it should make this post much shorter since you know the strains you want to use, the pairings, and the traits to look for. This means the majority of this post will be about where/which seeds to use.

Project 1: Mendocino Purple x White Rhino

I agree with @thenotsoesoteric, CSI Humboldt is going to be your best bet for the Mendocino Purple. It’s available as feminized seeds ($100/7fem seeds). Depending on your budget and strict idea about what exactly constitutes the Mendocino Purple you’re after, you may want to get 2 packs of them.

Usually S1 feminized seeds are a variation on a theme using the traits of the female plant being reversed. So you’ll may get plants that look/smell/taste like the plant you want, but might grow and smoke slightly differently, etc.. So depending on what exactly to wanted from the Mendo, you’ll decide whether one or multiple packs is in order. The more seeds you pop, the better the chance of finding the one you’re picturing.

Nspecta (breeder for CSI) has an interview where he describes the Mendo Purps throwing really great plants from the S1, so if you’d like to grow one pack, you’ll probably find something that scratches the itch.

CSI Humboldt – Mendocino Purple S1: https://humboldtcsi.com/product/mendocino-purple-s1/

Potcast (Nspecta) - It's 3hrs long and covers much, but there are some pockets with Mendo Purple references.
https://soundcloud.com/the_pot_cast%2Fepisode-15-nspecta-of-csi-humboldt-pirates-of-the-emerald-triangle
As posted before, the White Rhino has been renamed Medicine Man from Mr. Nice Seeds. He uses the original stock to create the same genetics from when they first appeared, so I wouldn’t mess around with any of the copies for this one.

Mr. Nice Seeds – Medicine Man (aka White Rhino):
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/mr-nice-seeds-medicine-man/prod_1217.html

Since the Mendo is feminized, you’re stuck with her as the female in the cross (no big loss, as this was the way you have it written, Female x Male) The White Rhino seeds are regulars so you’ll be able to select a male for the pollination.
 
Project 2: Lemon OG x Hindu Kush
For your Lemon OG, I’d suggest DNA Genetics Lemon OG feminized seeds. DNA used to be a much bigger deal before the American seed banks really took off and I have no reason to believe their wares have fallen off (this will make more since when describing the Hindu Kush later).

Like the Mendo, if you go this route you’re stuck with the Lemon OG as your female. Again, not a big issue, as you’ve planned out this cross with it as your female. Since you want this cross to really express lemon terps, it would be best to use the Lemon OG as your female anyway because it allows you to know for a fact that one of your parents is bringing the lemon scent (assuming you find the pheno which expresses it).

View attachment 31118Screen Shot 2019-11-20 at 5.40.47 AM.png

You’ll find with fruity strains especially, the name of the strain gives a general theme of the range of smells to expect. So you’ll probably come across generically citrusy smelling plants from the pack and maybe a couple that smell exactly like lemons (not lime, not grapefruit, not oranges, but straight lemon). So selecting the pheno to move forward with from the Lemon OG should be straightforward.

DNA Lemon OG: https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/dna-genetics-seeds-lemon-og-kush/prod_3472.html

Grow Journal showing some pics/review: :https://www.rollitup.org/t/dna-genetics-lemon-og-kush-grow-report-with-harvest-pics.712329/

Now, the most difficult decision will be the Hindu Kush. This is not a strain that is wildly popular, so sourcing a known breeder putting them out pure is problematic. Since I’m sending you to Attitude Seed Bank to source some others, there are only a few in stock.

We have:

Afghan Selections – Hindu Kush ($104/12seeds)
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/afghan-selection-seeds-hindu-kush/prod_8045.html

Sensi Seeds – Hindu Kush ($42/10seeds)
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/sensi-seeds-hindu-kush/prod_2412.html

Kiwi Seeds – Hindu Kush ($39/10seeds)
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/kiwi-seeds-hindu-kush/prod_2930.html

When trying to sift through different sources, there are a couple things to consider/look for. The first one is pictures/info from the breeder. If you notice Afghan Selections has no pictures for any of their seeds. This doesn’t necessarily mean they haven’t tested/grown it out, but it doesn’t instill confidence that they have. Another thing to check out is any experience other growers have had with the seeds. A quick search for grow journals/reviews for the seed line and breeder comes up short on info. So without much coming from the breeder, a lack of others with experience growing them, and a hefty price tag, this one would be a pass for me.

Sensi Seeds is a company that you’ll see referenced a lot and for good reason. At one time they were putting out great lines that are still lurking throughout the modern genetics. Something to keep in mind is that breeders/seed co.’s that have been around a long time, may not be producing the same genetics they once did. Sensi Seeds is a good example of this, as their seeds from the ‘90s were great, but has since declined.

Usually this type of thing happens when original genetics are lost and subpar substitutes are introduced. They usually don’t advertise this practice and keep all the same pics/info of the original. You’ll see the issue pop up when you try to grow them or read others’ experience. I’ve had headaches with post-2000 Sensi Seeds (low germination, plants that don’t resemble the strains, terrible potency, etc.)

When you’re checking grow journals to research breeders, try to find those that are relatively recent. Here is a grow of Sensi’s Hindu (2017) that is taking the grower into 90 days to finish with lackluster results.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/sensi-seeds-hindu-kush.339533/

This leaves Kiwi Seeds’ Hindu Kush. They have pics/info and while not tons of reviews, they are favorable. The price is decent and would allow you to snag a couple packs to find a solid representation. If you’re hellbent on keeping it to the Hindu Kush and not branching out to closely related genetics, this may be a good avenue to explore.

There is also Hazeman's Hindu Kush, but I could not find them in stock at any bank that I’ve patronized. Like the Medicine Man/White Rhino, there is a differently named Hindu Kush line that goes by the name of Tuna Kush. I couldn’t find these in stock at trusted places either, so if you want to start projects soon, you may have to default to Kiwi’s Hindu.

If you’re open to using something closely related to the Hindu, I’d entertain Duke Diamond’s (Sensi Hashplant x Afghan) - ($125/10+seeds)

https://www.seedsherenow.com/shop/seed-types/regular-seeds/duke-diamonds-vault-sensi-hashplant-x-afghani/

View attachment 31119Screen Shot 2019-11-20 at 7.44.04 AM.png

Now you might be thinking, wait didn’t you just say steer clear of Sensi genetics? The Sensi HP used in this cross is from the old school Sensi stock, so it’s good to go. The Sensi HP is based on Hindu Kush so you’d still be wading around in the same gene pool

sensi hp.pngView attachment 31120

If you decide to go this route, Duke Diamond is as legit as they come, so his genetics are tested and you can trust the description.

I’ll let this post stay mostly focused on sourcing the ingredients for now. I get the impression that these projects are mainly for your own enjoyment/consumption and not an attempt to rush some seeds to a market to make a million dollars.

You can take your time growing out the intended females first (instead of everything all at once trying to figure out where the hell to keep 4-8 packs worth of plants growing) and select the best phenos that exhibit the traits you’d ultimately like to observe in your final projects. Or take one project at a time and grow the intended females/males, etc. If you wanted to really put the pedal to the metal, you could pop all the packs to decide on, select your best male from White Rhino/Hindu and pollinate one brach of each female so you can pheno hunt and make seeds at the same time. Then when you harvest and decide which female pheno was your favorite, you’ll already have the first round of seeds made.

I’ll let you digest this post before jumping into some suggested plans of attack for the actual selections and pollination.

Hope this helps!
 

GCG

Dinosaur
Project 2: Lemon OG x Hindu Kush
For your Lemon OG, I’d suggest DNA Genetics Lemon OG feminized seeds. DNA used to be a much bigger deal before the American seed banks really took off and I have no reason to believe their wares have fallen off (this will make more since when describing the Hindu Kush later).

Like the Mendo, if you go this route you’re stuck with the Lemon OG as your female. Again, not a big issue, as you’ve planned out this cross with it as your female. Since you want this cross to really express lemon terps, it would be best to use the Lemon OG as your female anyway because it allows you to know for a fact that one of your parents is bringing the lemon scent (assuming you find the pheno which expresses it).

View attachment 31118View attachment 31121

You’ll find with fruity strains especially, the name of the strain gives a general theme of the range of smells to expect. So you’ll probably come across generically citrusy smelling plants from the pack and maybe a couple that smell exactly like lemons (not lime, not grapefruit, not oranges, but straight lemon). So selecting the pheno to move forward with from the Lemon OG should be straightforward.

DNA Lemon OG: https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/dna-genetics-seeds-lemon-og-kush/prod_3472.html

Grow Journal showing some pics/review: :https://www.rollitup.org/t/dna-genetics-lemon-og-kush-grow-report-with-harvest-pics.712329/

Now, the most difficult decision will be the Hindu Kush. This is not a strain that is wildly popular, so sourcing a known breeder putting them out pure is problematic. Since I’m sending you to Attitude Seed Bank to source some others, there are only a few in stock.

We have:

Afghan Selections – Hindu Kush ($104/12seeds)
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/afghan-selection-seeds-hindu-kush/prod_8045.html

Sensi Seeds – Hindu Kush ($42/10seeds)
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/sensi-seeds-hindu-kush/prod_2412.html

Kiwi Seeds – Hindu Kush ($39/10seeds)
https://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/kiwi-seeds-hindu-kush/prod_2930.html

When trying to sift through different sources, there are a couple things to consider/look for. The first one is pictures/info from the breeder. If you notice Afghan Selections has no pictures for any of their seeds. This doesn’t necessarily mean they haven’t tested/grown it out, but it doesn’t instill confidence that they have. Another thing to check out is any experience other growers have had with the seeds. A quick search for grow journals/reviews for the seed line and breeder comes up short on info. So without much coming from the breeder, a lack of others with experience growing them, and a hefty price tag, this one would be a pass for me.

Sensi Seeds is a company that you’ll see referenced a lot and for good reason. At one time they were putting out great lines that are still lurking throughout the modern genetics. Something to keep in mind is that breeders/seed co.’s that have been around a long time, may not be producing the same genetics they once did. Sensi Seeds is a good example of this, as their seeds from the ‘90s were great, but has since declined.

Usually this type of thing happens when original genetics are lost and subpar substitutes are introduced. They usually don’t advertise this practice and keep all the same pics/info of the original. You’ll see the issue pop up when you try to grow them or read others’ experience. I’ve had headaches with post-2000 Sensi Seeds (low germination, plants that don’t resemble the strains, terrible potency, etc.)

When you’re checking grow journals to research breeders, try to find those that are relatively recent. Here is a grow of Sensi’s Hindu (2017) that is taking the grower into 90 days to finish with lackluster results.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/sensi-seeds-hindu-kush.339533/

This leaves Kiwi Seeds’ Hindu Kush. They have pics/info and while not tons of reviews, they are favorable. The price is decent and would allow you to snag a couple packs to find a solid representation. If you’re hellbent on keeping it to the Hindu Kush and not branching out to closely related genetics, this may be a good avenue to explore.

There is also Hazeman's Hindu Kush, but I could not find them in stock at any bank that I’ve patronized. Like the Medicine Man/White Rhino, there is a differently named Hindu Kush line that goes by the name of Tuna Kush. I couldn’t find these in stock at trusted places either, so if you want to start projects soon, you may have to default to Kiwi’s Hindu.

If you’re open to using something closely related to the Hindu, I’d entertain Duke Diamond’s (Sensi Hashplant x Afghan) - ($125/10+seeds)

https://www.seedsherenow.com/shop/seed-types/regular-seeds/duke-diamonds-vault-sensi-hashplant-x-afghani/

View attachment 31119View attachment 31122

Now you might be thinking, wait didn’t you just say steer clear of Sensi genetics? The Sensi HP used in this cross is from the old school Sensi stock, so it’s good to go. The Sensi HP is based on Hindu Kush so you’d still be wading around in the same gene pool

View attachment 31123View attachment 31120

If you decide to go this route, Duke Diamond is as legit as they come, so his genetics are tested and you can trust the description.

I’ll let this post stay mostly focused on sourcing the ingredients for now. I get the impression that these projects are mainly for your own enjoyment/consumption and not an attempt to rush some seeds to a market to make a million dollars.

You can take your time growing out the intended females first (instead of everything all at once trying to figure out where the hell to keep 4-8 packs worth of plants growing) and select the best phenos that exhibit the traits you’d ultimately like to observe in your final projects. Or take one project at a time and grow the intended females/males, etc. If you wanted to really put the pedal to the metal, you could pop all the packs to decide on, select your best male from White Rhino/Hindu and pollinate one brach of each female so you can pheno hunt and make seeds at the same time. Then when you harvest and decide which female pheno was your favorite, you’ll already have the first round of seeds made.

I’ll let you digest this post before jumping into some suggested plans of attack for the actual selections and pollination.

Hope this helps!
You need to write a series of books. Or just compile all you've already written into volumes. Love reading what you post.
 

Gweedo

PICK YOUR OWN
Well im without words Mr.P, i first thank you ohh so very much for your time and input on this, that response most definitely put my fears to rest, i had gotten to 2 of those sources on my own researching, lol even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. So now im gonna spend the day turning cash into beans lol and i second the line of schwaggy p grow guides definitely 💪💪💪🖒🖒🖒
 
Well im without words Mr.P, i first thank you ohh so very much for your time and input on this, that response most definitely put my fears to rest, i had gotten to 2 of those sources on my own researching, lol even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes. So now im gonna spend the day turning cash into beans lol and i second the line of schwaggy p grow guides definitely 💪💪💪🖒🖒🖒
You're very welcome. ;) (y)
 
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