How would one find and create the perfect male?

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
I have three particular strains I thought would be great to cross. My goal would be to find a great male from this triple cross to pollen chuck on some of my other strains. I keep mulling this process over in my head and what the best course of action would be in such an endeavor.

For instance, let's say I'm looking to create a male from (WW, NL, and a Landrace)

Would this be the correct process?

1. Pop a bunch of seeds from WW and NL.
2. Pick the best male and female from each
3. Cross (WW x NL) and (NL x WW)
4. Grow them out to see which characteristics carried over and what was more of what I was looking for. Because how do you decide who you want the Mom to be and who you want the Dad to be?
5. At this point, once the Mom and Dad are decided, is it best to cross it back with a parent before moving on to the third strain? Let's say I chose (NL x WW) - and it should be backcrossed before moving on. How would you decide who to cross it back to? The mom NL or the dad WW?
6. Introduction of the third strain. In this case a landrace. Does it make a difference that a landrace is being introduced? Being, should I cross with the landrace first, wait to do it last, or does it even matter?

I can totally be overthinking this. But it's been racking my brain for months. It's a project I've really been wanting to do for sometime. I'd just like to have a better idea and a good plan in place.

Any advice or suggestions? It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
How would one find and create the perfect male?

Step 1 - look in the mirror.
Step 2 - don't mess with a good thing

View attachment 7815
You had me laughing. I'm sure it sounds stupid and is probably easier than I'm making it out to be. Watch, it's basically something like cross one and two, then add three. If left alone for to long, I might add a few more steps and a couple extra unnecessary years to the process. On a serious note, I'm willing to put in the time, just as long as I'm doing it right.
 

Mr Blamo

Old Timer
I have a nice male that I found in a pack of Romulan seeds.
He stinks to high heaven. He was put to flower at 14 inches and today he is 24 inches tall. Loaded with balls.
As of last night he was dropping pollen.
He gonna hit a lot of gear.
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
Check out Schwaggy p's thread on the site here. He goes very into depth in selection of male and female traits for breeding etc. Should find plenty of what your looking for.
Totally. I highly recommend it to. I took a lot out of it. I read his thread from start to finish. His thread is the most informative thread I think I've ever read. It's definitely top notch.

It wasn't necessarily how to pick a male or female, but more so picking the best combination of the first two strains and if backcrossing in necessary before introducing the third strain.

I reached out to a buddy who's been breeding for awhile and basically I'm totally overthinking it. I need to pop my seeds and let the findings determine who's going to be who. Rather than trying to have a predetermined decided donor.

My landrace question was answered based on my goals. Since the landrace is sativa and one of the other strains is sativa dominant, I should start with those. Then introduce the indica last in an attempt to help speed up flowering times.
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
I chucked a tent late last year and it really made me appreciate the work that a lot of these guys put in to this shit. I guess a good starting point would be...



How much is a bunch? and what is your end goal? At this rate you will have enough beans for an army..
A bunch for me as hobbyist isn't a bunch like 100-200+ like the big name breeders. My bunch would only be around 20-30.
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
I have a nice male that I found in a pack of Romulan seeds.
He stinks to high heaven. He was put to flower at 14 inches and today he is 24 inches tall. Loaded with balls.
As of last night he was dropping pollen.
He gonna hit a lot of gear.
That's awesome Blamo. I remember Romulan from late 90's or early 00's. I used to really like that strain. I haven't seen or heard of it in a really long time. I wish you the best on that. Should be some nice crosses coming your way. Are you running a journal?
 
I have three particular strains I thought would be great to cross. My goal would be to find a great male from this triple cross to pollen chuck on some of my other strains. I keep mulling this process over in my head and what the best course of action would be in such an endeavor.

For instance, let's say I'm looking to create a male from (WW, NL, and a Landrace)
When you decided these 3 strains would be the best ingredients, what specifically did you find desirable in each of these?

What would you like to see from your final male?

What constitutes “a great male” in the context of your future plans with him? You could want a male that strengthens the structure while allowing a majority of the female’s traits to dominate such that you have an improved version of the P1 female. I can assume from your plans to cross 3 strains that you may have a more specific set of traits to pass through to most of his progeny, but you may have other goals.

Would this be the correct process?

1. Pop a bunch of seeds from WW and NL.
2. Pick the best male and female from each
3. Cross (WW x NL) and (NL x WW)
4. Grow them out to see which characteristics carried over and what was more of what I was looking for. Because how do you decide who you want the Mom to be and who you want the Dad to be?
5. At this point, once the Mom and Dad are decided, is it best to cross it back with a parent before moving on to the third strain? Let's say I chose (NL x WW) - and it should be backcrossed before moving on. How would you decide who to cross it back to? The mom NL or the dad WW?
6. Introduction of the third strain. In this case a landrace. Does it make a difference that a landrace is being introduced? Being, should I cross with the landrace first, wait to do it last, or does it even matter?
Generally, I like to choose my males with structural considerations that I want to see in the progeny. I’ll get to see all of the female traits from the female population to make selections based on chemotype, terps, etc. I’m limited in what information I can get from male and prioritize the few traits I can observe (mainly structural).

Assume you wanted the WW bud on a more stout NL frame. In this case it may be a good plan to look to the WW for the female (you can select the plant that most embodies the qualities you want in the female traits) and select a male from the NL with the best example of the stout structure. If you wanted a more intricate blending of the two, the selection process would be more complicated.

5. At this point, once the Mom and Dad are decided, is it best to cross it back with a parent before moving on to the third strain? Let's say I chose (NL x WW) - and it should be backcrossed before moving on. How would you decide who to cross it back to? The mom NL or the dad WW?
How you move along your breeding will depend on how the process is moving along. You won’t get to know how these plants breed until you grow out the progeny. Generally, backcrossing is used to reinforce a parent’s contributions.

If you were very happy with the F1 plants and found a male that had the traits you were hoping to get from the cross, backcrossing will throw off that genetic contribution ratio and skew your plants away from that expression that made you happy in the F1. If you were somewhat happy with the plants that came from your F1, but felt it could use a little more dominance from either parent, you could select the parent based on the traits you’d like to have reinforced. Using the earlier assumption, if your (WW x NL) F1 plants were not as short and stocky as you hoped, then backcrossing to the NL male could get you the plants you were after.

6. Introduction of the third strain. In this case a landrace. Does it make a difference that a landrace is being introduced? Being, should I cross with the landrace first, wait to do it last, or does it even matter?
I would say that a landrace would make a difference. Landraces can be heavily inbred lines that can wash out other traits you’re trying to add to a new line. If it was an Afghani, I would probably use it in the first round of crossing to reduce the overbearing influence to just 25% of the final 3-way cross. This depends on which landrace and what influence you’d like to get in the final plants.

I can totally be overthinking this. But it's been racking my brain for months. It's a project I've really been wanting to do for sometime. I'd just like to have a better idea and a good plan in place.
I think articulating what you like about the initial 3 strains and what you’d like to see in the final male will help making a plan of attack.
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
When you decided these 3 strains would be the best ingredients, what specifically did you find desirable in each of these?

What would you like to see from your final male?

What constitutes “a great male” in the context of your future plans with him? You could want a male that strengthens the structure while allowing a majority of the female’s traits to dominate such that you have an improved version of the P1 female. I can assume from your plans to cross 3 strains that you may have a more specific set of traits to pass through to most of his progeny, but you may have other goals.


Generally, I like to choose my males with structural considerations that I want to see in the progeny. I’ll get to see all of the female traits from the female population to make selections based on chemotype, terps, etc. I’m limited in what information I can get from male and prioritize the few traits I can observe (mainly structural).

Assume you wanted the WW bud on a more stout NL frame. In this case it may be a good plan to look to the WW for the female (you can select the plant that most embodies the qualities you want in the female traits) and select a male from the NL with the best example of the stout structure. If you wanted a more intricate blending of the two, the selection process would be more complicated.


How you move along your breeding will depend on how the process is moving along. You won’t get to know how these plants breed until you grow out the progeny. Generally, backcrossing is used to reinforce a parent’s contributions.

If you were very happy with the F1 plants and found a male that had the traits you were hoping to get from the cross, backcrossing will throw off that genetic contribution ratio and skew your plants away from that expression that made you happy in the F1. If you were somewhat happy with the plants that came from your F1, but felt it could use a little more dominance from either parent, you could select the parent based on the traits you’d like to have reinforced. Using the earlier assumption, if your (WW x NL) F1 plants were not as short and stocky as you hoped, then backcrossing to the NL male could get you the plants you were after.


I would say that a landrace would make a difference. Landraces can be heavily inbred lines that can wash out other traits you’re trying to add to a new line. If it was an Afghani, I would probably use it in the first round of crossing to reduce the overbearing influence to just 25% of the final 3-way cross. This depends on which landrace and what influence you’d like to get in the final plants.


I think articulating what you like about the initial 3 strains and what you’d like to see in the final male will help making a plan of attack.
First, I want to thank you for reading and taking the time out of your day to write up such a detailed and informative response. It’s greatly appreciated Schwaggy.

I chose these three strains for a multitude of reasons, but a lot of common similarities in an attempt to meet my end goal.

Landrace; I knew I wanted a landrace because in my opinion, many of the older, iconic, timeless strains weren’t heavily crossbred with a long-listed lineage chart. I realize there’s a number of iconic strains that were heavily crossbred or accidental pollinations, but I wanted to start with more of a clean base. I chose this landrace sativa from these notes: Very easily grown, it is suitable for almost anywhere for it being very resistant to cold, high humidity, mold and pests. We found some impressive males in this strain. They were very strong in structure, very odorous and productive.

Sativa Dom; I wanted to incorporate a very potent strain in hopes the trait would be passed on to improve whatever I decided to use it with. A very long-lasting high was the most desirable for me. The highs I remember the most were the ones from the mid to late 90’s. Possibly early 2000’s. There were times we came across a strain and the high would last 6-8 hours. Back then we just called it one hitter quitter. I’d like to try and duplicate that nostalgia again. I chose the Sativa Dom from these notes; A powerful high, with amazing, sugary trichomes. It’s tested at 25%+ THC. The yield of this strain is very high. The high is insanely strong and very long lasting.

Indica; I wanted to incorporate a heavy resin producing strain. Something the eye couldn’t deny. Again, going back to the 90’s, I remember we used to test weed on our windshields for a sticky test while we were driving away with a new bag. If it stuck to the windshield, we just called it chronic. I’m hoping to incorporate a similar trait. Completely coated, resin covered buds. Similarly to the landrace, another reason I liked this particular strain is it’s short listed lineage chart. It’s not heavily crossbred. These are some of the notes from this Indica; The plant is vigorous and well scented not to mention it frosts up the last weeks of the flowering cycle. The high is very strong and long lasting.

What I’d like to see from my final male is most likely a tall order. It may not all be possible, but I’d like to try. I’d like nice, strong structure, medium height, high potency, resin coated or at least passed on. Odor will be a factor in selecting males, but the trait isn’t necessary to be passed on. That can come from the female. Same with color. Most importantly I’d like my male to have a very high success rate in making whatever it’s crossed with better than what it previously was before the cross. I’d like to be confident it’s a gem.

If I can achieve most or all of those traits, I’d consider it a great male.

If I was very happy with the F1 plants and found a male that had the traits I was hoping to get from the cross, I didn’t realize backcrossing would throw off that genetic contribution ratio and skew the plants away from that expression. That’s really good to know. I don’t have a complete understanding yet of backcrossing and stabilizing. I always thought that it would stabilize it rather than skew the genetic contribution. But after you explaining that, it makes perfect sense as the percentage of traits would change. Like 75%/25% to 60%/40% as a hypothetical example.

Based on your recommendation, I also purchased RC Clarke’s book Marijuana Botany; An Advanced Study: The Propagation and Breeding of Distinctive Cannabis. I look forward to reading through it and absorbing as much as possible.

Thanks again
 
First, I want to thank you for reading and taking the time out of your day to write up such a detailed and informative response. It’s greatly appreciated Schwaggy.
You are very welcome 🙂

I chose these three strains for a multitude of reasons, but a lot of common similarities in an attempt to meet my end goal.
Listing the traits you stated for each strain and comparing them to the final male you’d like to have, we can see which ingredients you’ll need to draw on for which aspects.
LANDRACE
  • easy grow
  • adaptable
  • resistant
  • strong structure
  • odorous
  • high yield
INDICA
  • vigorous
  • odorous
  • high resin
  • long lasting high
SATIVA
  • high without a ceiling
  • long lasting high
  • high resin
  • high yield
FINAL 3-WAY MALE
  • strong structure
  • medium height
  • high without a ceiling
  • long lasting high
  • high resin
We can see which traits the 3 ingredients can contribute (in red). It seems that while the landrace has some desirable qualities in general, they aren’t really that impactful considering what you’d like to get from your male. The only thing you explicitly mentioned that was not in either of the other two is “strong structure”. You may be able to just work a hybrid of the Sativa dom x Indica dom plants and find a male that embodies what you’d like considering these two include the majority of the goals you want.

The trait that seems to be your most important is the high without a ceiling. Since this trait is going to be the most important, I would try to work in this trait from the Sativa dom at the final cross so as not to “water it down”. The fact that both Sativa and Indica plants have the high resin production and potent effect, suggests that the landrace may be the better choice for your initial F1 to impart the structure without risking washing out the Sativa dom effect in the later inclusion of the third strain.

I might start with the (Indica x Landrace)F1. You mentioned the Landrace throwing out exceptional males and you’ll want to be able to select and use the most resinous Indica female, so to me the best bet would be the use the Indica as the female and Landrace as the male. You’ll be able to select the progeny with the most desirable structure early in veg while also assessing frost production in later veg during stem rubs as frosty males will usually express this trait before flower. This allows you to establish a plant with the strong structure of the Landrace with the increased resin production of the Indica based solely on pre flower observables.

If you’re finding tons of great male candidates from this cross, then I would use some of the less prioritized traits to further narrow down the selection (odor, leaf aesthetics, vigor, etc.) Assuming your indica is of the short variety and the landrace sativa is of the crazy stretch variety, I would err on the side of shorter considering you still have another sativa to introduce and you want to end up with medium sized plants.

At this point, you’d have a pretty solid plant that checks off “strong structure” and “resinous” from your final list of traits. If you wanted to further assess what other “female” traits this male passed on, you’d have to cross him to a few females you’re familiar with and grow out the progeny to see what exactly he brings to the table. Assuming you did not want to take that time-consuming step, I would move on to cross this strong structure resinous plant with the Sativa dom plant.

As before, we’ll have the female in this cross be the plant which has the target chemotype/resin production, since we can ensure these traits exist in the female plant. I would take the Sativa dom which best expresses the high with no ceiling and cross her with the (Indica x Landrace) male that has the strong structure and high resin production.

With the 3-way cross made, I would then hunt through these seeds to find the plant that best exemplifies the goals laid out for your final male. I know you want males, but I would also flower out at least a few females that most closely resemble the phenotype you’ve crowned the winner in the male(s), so that you can get an idea of how that phenotype may express in female form. Beyond getting a clue of how the male would perform expressing female traits, you now have the ingredients to further stabilize your new strain with filial breeding.

If I was very happy with the F1 plants and found a male that had the traits I was hoping to get from the cross, I didn’t realize backcrossing would throw off that genetic contribution ratio and skew the plants away from that expression. That’s really good to know. I don’t have a complete understanding yet of backcrossing and stabilizing. I always thought that it would stabilize it rather than skew the genetic contribution. But after you explaining that, it makes perfect sense as the percentage of traits would change. Like 75%/25% to 60%/40% as a hypothetical example.
Stabilizing a strain usually means to reduce the variance such that the range of phenotypes converges on the breeder’s selected expression. Backcrossing would take the new 3-way cross and increase the contribution from the parent that you backcrossed to, potentially losing traits you selected for in the earlier processes. I would definitely filial breed the last cross [Sativa dom X (Indica x Landrace)] to further F2,F3,… generations to “lock down” the desirable expression. Since you’d be working within the line, you wont necessarily be skewing your [50%Sativa, 25%Indica, 25%Landrace] 3-way. If you felt that backcrossing an F2 plant back to a male or female 3-way-plant from the F1 or P1, then you would still be working within your 3-way line and could better hone in on a truer breeding version of your target male.

Using a Punnett square, let’s assume you pop seeds from the final cross and find a female and male that both have the strong structure. Since we can only observe the dominant trait, let’s assume they are at least heterozygous for strong structure (Aa), where ‘A’ represents dominant structure and ‘a’ represent recessive weak structure. If we cross them, we get:
Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 6.57.09 AM.png
The (aa) plant is going to be weak structured and can be culled on sight. The remaining three plants will all have the dominant structure ‘A’. What we would like to have is the one ‘AA’ plant because it has been “stabilized” to be a plant that is true breeding for strong structure. You would not know this plant from the other two unless you crossed the three to other plants to see which produces all strong structured plants.

In essence, this is what you are doing when you are trying to stabilize a line. Now try juggling all of the traits you’d like to stabilize without the benefit of a genomics lab and you can see where the science of breeding starts to become the art of breeding.

This is just a proposed approach I would use given the information you have provided and the considerations you’d like in the final 3-way crossed plant. It is by no means the only way to go about your project and remember, I’m just some guy on the internet, so this is just for your consideration.
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
You are very welcome 🙂


Listing the traits you stated for each strain and comparing them to the final male you’d like to have, we can see which ingredients you’ll need to draw on for which aspects.
LANDRACE
  • easy grow
  • adaptable
  • resistant
  • strong structure
  • odorous
  • high yield
INDICA
  • vigorous
  • odorous
  • high resin
  • long lasting high
SATIVA
  • high without a ceiling
  • long lasting high
  • high resin
  • high yield
FINAL 3-WAY MALE
  • strong structure
  • medium height
  • high without a ceiling
  • long lasting high
  • high resin
We can see which traits the 3 ingredients can contribute (in red). It seems that while the landrace has some desirable qualities in general, they aren’t really that impactful considering what you’d like to get from your male. The only thing you explicitly mentioned that was not in either of the other two is “strong structure”. You may be able to just work a hybrid of the Sativa dom x Indica dom plants and find a male that embodies what you’d like considering these two include the majority of the goals you want.

The trait that seems to be your most important is the high without a ceiling. Since this trait is going to be the most important, I would try to work in this trait from the Sativa dom at the final cross so as not to “water it down”. The fact that both Sativa and Indica plants have the high resin production and potent effect, suggests that the landrace may be the better choice for your initial F1 to impart the structure without risking washing out the Sativa dom effect in the later inclusion of the third strain.

I might start with the (Indica x Landrace)F1. You mentioned the Landrace throwing out exceptional males and you’ll want to be able to select and use the most resinous Indica female, so to me the best bet would be the use the Indica as the female and Landrace as the male. You’ll be able to select the progeny with the most desirable structure early in veg while also assessing frost production in later veg during stem rubs as frosty males will usually express this trait before flower. This allows you to establish a plant with the strong structure of the Landrace with the increased resin production of the Indica based solely on pre flower observables.

If you’re finding tons of great male candidates from this cross, then I would use some of the less prioritized traits to further narrow down the selection (odor, leaf aesthetics, vigor, etc.) Assuming your indica is of the short variety and the landrace sativa is of the crazy stretch variety, I would err on the side of shorter considering you still have another sativa to introduce and you want to end up with medium sized plants.

At this point, you’d have a pretty solid plant that checks off “strong structure” and “resinous” from your final list of traits. If you wanted to further assess what other “female” traits this male passed on, you’d have to cross him to a few females you’re familiar with and grow out the progeny to see what exactly he brings to the table. Assuming you did not want to take that time-consuming step, I would move on to cross this strong structure resinous plant with the Sativa dom plant.

As before, we’ll have the female in this cross be the plant which has the target chemotype/resin production, since we can ensure these traits exist in the female plant. I would take the Sativa dom which best expresses the high with no ceiling and cross her with the (Indica x Landrace) male that has the strong structure and high resin production.

With the 3-way cross made, I would then hunt through these seeds to find the plant that best exemplifies the goals laid out for your final male. I know you want males, but I would also flower out at least a few females that most closely resemble the phenotype you’ve crowned the winner in the male(s), so that you can get an idea of how that phenotype may express in female form. Beyond getting a clue of how the male would perform expressing female traits, you now have the ingredients to further stabilize your new strain with filial breeding.


Stabilizing a strain usually means to reduce the variance such that the range of phenotypes converges on the breeder’s selected expression. Backcrossing would take the new 3-way cross and increase the contribution from the parent that you backcrossed to, potentially losing traits you selected for in the earlier processes. I would definitely filial breed the last cross [Sativa dom X (Indica x Landrace)] to further F2,F3,… generations to “lock down” the desirable expression. Since you’d be working within the line, you wont necessarily be skewing your [50%Sativa, 25%Indica, 25%Landrace] 3-way. If you felt that backcrossing an F2 plant back to a male or female 3-way-plant from the F1 or P1, then you would still be working within your 3-way line and could better hone in on a truer breeding version of your target male.

Using a Punnett square, let’s assume you pop seeds from the final cross and find a female and male that both have the strong structure. Since we can only observe the dominant trait, let’s assume they are at least heterozygous for strong structure (Aa), where ‘A’ represents dominant structure and ‘a’ represent recessive weak structure. If we cross them, we get:
The (aa) plant is going to be weak structured and can be culled on sight. The remaining three plants will all have the dominant structure ‘A’. What we would like to have is the one ‘AA’ plant because it has been “stabilized” to be a plant that is true breeding for strong structure. You would not know this plant from the other two unless you crossed the three to other plants to see which produces all strong structured plants.

In essence, this is what you are doing when you are trying to stabilize a line. Now try juggling all of the traits you’d like to stabilize without the benefit of a genomics lab and you can see where the science of breeding starts to become the art of breeding.

This is just a proposed approach I would use given the information you have provided and the considerations you’d like in the final 3-way crossed plant. It is by no means the only way to go about your project and remember, I’m just some guy on the internet, so this is just for your consideration.
Schwaggy, you make it nearly impossible for me to not sound like a broken record and continually praise your knowledge, tutelage, and my expression of gratitude toward all of your efforts in assisting me. The level at which you dissect each of my questions and then address them individually in such detail and understanding is not just absolutely phenomenal, but inspiring. It's hard to find words that could truly express the level of gratitude I have for your time investing in this conversation and imparting your wisdom.

I genuinely thank you for pointing me in the right direction, providing me with a road map, and providing me with some of the necessary tools so I can hopefully reach my goal. You say, "I'm just some guy on the internet," understandably and rightfully so, but I find myself extremely fortunate to have had the opportunity to meet you and have this exchange of dialogue. You sir, in my book, are a stand up guy with genuine intentions. A true class act.

What you've shared has given me a good foundational base to use for years to come. I sincerely thank you.
 
Schwaggy, you make it nearly impossible for me to not sound like a broken record and continually praise your knowledge, tutelage, and my expression of gratitude toward all of your efforts in assisting me. The level at which you dissect each of my questions and then address them individually in such detail and understanding is not just absolutely phenomenal, but inspiring. It's hard to find words that could truly express the level of gratitude I have for your time investing in this conversation and imparting your wisdom.

I genuinely thank you for pointing me in the right direction, providing me with a road map, and providing me with some of the necessary tools so I can hopefully reach my goal. You say, "I'm just some guy on the internet," understandably and rightfully so, but I find myself extremely fortunate to have had the opportunity to meet you and have this exchange of dialogue. You sir, in my book, are a stand up guy with genuine intentions. A true class act.

What you've shared has given me a good foundational base to use for years to come. I sincerely thank you.
You are welcome, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate the sentiment. If you ever want to bounce breeding ideas off of someone, I’m always available.

Let me know when you’ve finished the project and I’d be happy to buy/trade for some beans to grow out your creation.
 

Phylex

PICK YOUR OWN
You are welcome, it’s my pleasure. Thank you for the kind words, I really appreciate the sentiment. If you ever want to bounce breeding ideas off of someone, I’m always available.

Let me know when you’ve finished the project and I’d be happy to buy/trade for some beans to grow out your creation.
I appreciate you leaving that door open. I'll definitely send you some. The offer to buy/trade is a kind gesture but would never be necessary. It would be exciting to see someone else grow something I've made and get some feedback. Whether it's good/bad/or indifferent. Hopefully it ends up being something you really like. That would make it all worth it.
 

Cob_nUt

"Justa Ganja Lover"
You are very welcome 🙂


Listing the traits you stated for each strain and comparing them to the final male you’d like to have, we can see which ingredients you’ll need to draw on for which aspects.
LANDRACE
  • easy grow
  • adaptable
  • resistant
  • strong structure
  • odorous
  • high yield
INDICA
  • vigorous
  • odorous
  • high resin
  • long lasting high
SATIVA
  • high without a ceiling
  • long lasting high
  • high resin
  • high yield
FINAL 3-WAY MALE
  • strong structure
  • medium height
  • high without a ceiling
  • long lasting high
  • high resin
We can see which traits the 3 ingredients can contribute (in red). It seems that while the landrace has some desirable qualities in general, they aren’t really that impactful considering what you’d like to get from your male. The only thing you explicitly mentioned that was not in either of the other two is “strong structure”. You may be able to just work a hybrid of the Sativa dom x Indica dom plants and find a male that embodies what you’d like considering these two include the majority of the goals you want.

The trait that seems to be your most important is the high without a ceiling. Since this trait is going to be the most important, I would try to work in this trait from the Sativa dom at the final cross so as not to “water it down”. The fact that both Sativa and Indica plants have the high resin production and potent effect, suggests that the landrace may be the better choice for your initial F1 to impart the structure without risking washing out the Sativa dom effect in the later inclusion of the third strain.

I might start with the (Indica x Landrace)F1. You mentioned the Landrace throwing out exceptional males and you’ll want to be able to select and use the most resinous Indica female, so to me the best bet would be the use the Indica as the female and Landrace as the male. You’ll be able to select the progeny with the most desirable structure early in veg while also assessing frost production in later veg during stem rubs as frosty males will usually express this trait before flower. This allows you to establish a plant with the strong structure of the Landrace with the increased resin production of the Indica based solely on pre flower observables.

If you’re finding tons of great male candidates from this cross, then I would use some of the less prioritized traits to further narrow down the selection (odor, leaf aesthetics, vigor, etc.) Assuming your indica is of the short variety and the landrace sativa is of the crazy stretch variety, I would err on the side of shorter considering you still have another sativa to introduce and you want to end up with medium sized plants.

At this point, you’d have a pretty solid plant that checks off “strong structure” and “resinous” from your final list of traits. If you wanted to further assess what other “female” traits this male passed on, you’d have to cross him to a few females you’re familiar with and grow out the progeny to see what exactly he brings to the table. Assuming you did not want to take that time-consuming step, I would move on to cross this strong structure resinous plant with the Sativa dom plant.

As before, we’ll have the female in this cross be the plant which has the target chemotype/resin production, since we can ensure these traits exist in the female plant. I would take the Sativa dom which best expresses the high with no ceiling and cross her with the (Indica x Landrace) male that has the strong structure and high resin production.

With the 3-way cross made, I would then hunt through these seeds to find the plant that best exemplifies the goals laid out for your final male. I know you want males, but I would also flower out at least a few females that most closely resemble the phenotype you’ve crowned the winner in the male(s), so that you can get an idea of how that phenotype may express in female form. Beyond getting a clue of how the male would perform expressing female traits, you now have the ingredients to further stabilize your new strain with filial breeding.


Stabilizing a strain usually means to reduce the variance such that the range of phenotypes converges on the breeder’s selected expression. Backcrossing would take the new 3-way cross and increase the contribution from the parent that you backcrossed to, potentially losing traits you selected for in the earlier processes. I would definitely filial breed the last cross [Sativa dom X (Indica x Landrace)] to further F2,F3,… generations to “lock down” the desirable expression. Since you’d be working within the line, you wont necessarily be skewing your [50%Sativa, 25%Indica, 25%Landrace] 3-way. If you felt that backcrossing an F2 plant back to a male or female 3-way-plant from the F1 or P1, then you would still be working within your 3-way line and could better hone in on a truer breeding version of your target male.

Using a Punnett square, let’s assume you pop seeds from the final cross and find a female and male that both have the strong structure. Since we can only observe the dominant trait, let’s assume they are at least heterozygous for strong structure (Aa), where ‘A’ represents dominant structure and ‘a’ represent recessive weak structure. If we cross them, we get:
The (aa) plant is going to be weak structured and can be culled on sight. The remaining three plants will all have the dominant structure ‘A’. What we would like to have is the one ‘AA’ plant because it has been “stabilized” to be a plant that is true breeding for strong structure. You would not know this plant from the other two unless you crossed the three to other plants to see which produces all strong structured plants.

In essence, this is what you are doing when you are trying to stabilize a line. Now try juggling all of the traits you’d like to stabilize without the benefit of a genomics lab and you can see where the science of breeding starts to become the art of breeding.

This is just a proposed approach I would use given the information you have provided and the considerations you’d like in the final 3-way crossed plant. It is by no means the only way to go about your project and remember, I’m just some guy on the internet, so this is just for your consideration.
I'd give this post the fire emoji...except I'm on the wrong device.You are the man Schwaggy.
 
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