Heisen rdwc first grow - do I need to add nutes?

[Rattman]

Hi all,

I’m running 1000w mh light during flower.
This is my new rdwc based on Heisen’s plans.

Sensi A/B nutes are at about 2/3 recommended dose.
Also calmag, hydroguard and a little silica.

I’m guessing these plants are hungry.
Heisen’s gg4 on left and northern lights clones on right. Close up is the gg4.
New growth is light green and older growth even lighter green.
Can you friends confirm if I should up nutes?

 

[Turpman]

Little hard to see but looks like the older leaves are yellowing.
Could be ph or root issues.
May grow out of it.
What ppm and ph?

 

[Rattman]

Thanks turp!

RO and UV treated to nearly zero ppm.
Then used nute amounts above to get to about 740ppm.
I went very light on nutes cause the plants were still pretty small. I can increase now if you guys recommend it.

Ph is currently 5.9.
Last week ph was at 6.3 and I lowered .3 to ph of 6.0 and another .3 the next day to get ph to 5.7. I think it may have been to quick because I got some curling and crisping leaves. If you see any fried leaves, that is why. Ph seems to creep up about .1 every day or 2.

 

[Rattman]

Btw....gg4 roots are still white but the northern lights roots have brown in them.

Looks like I’ll be getting a chiller. Was hoping I could avoid w the UV....

 

[spyralout]

In this system less is more. Go past 800 PPM and things can start to get all crazy. Increased chance of lockout and dramatic ph swings.
- what is your PPM and water level in relation to ph on a daily basis? Ideally, water level should be dropping, ppm dropping or steady, ph rising or steady.
- what order are you adding and mixing nutes?
- brown is subjective. Could be stained from nutes. If roots are slimy, goopy, mushy, easily pulled off then it's pythium. If they're strong and tugging doesn't break them easily they are ok for the time being. Hydroguard alone is not enough. A Bennie tea works much better. Haven't tried UV yet.
- how long were they vegged at 18/6 or 24/0. Are they still in the "veg" phase of early flower? They look like they need some nitrogen.

 

[KMOG]

Throw h2o2 in the res. They aren’t underfed they have lockout. Your need to get more air to the roots and let’s the plants recover a bit before feeding them more. You should have plants that size around 400-500ppm and bump them Up to 750 once they’re established.

 

[Rattman]

I believe I put the calmag (2ml/gal) in first because someone on here suggested not to leave a ph meter in 0ppm RO water. Then the hydroguard (2ml/gal) and silica. then sensi part A, and lastly sensi part B. Once all that sits a bit I adjust ph.

All of this got the ppm up to about 600ppm or so. I just added more sensi part A/B last night to get ppm to 740.

Ph has been slowly going up, and plants are finally large enough that I am seeing water level go down.... but the ppm is going UP slightly every few days. not down.

I have exact measurements recorded for each nute/product added to the water and can share if you guys need that info.

The top off Rez is set the same as the epi bucket except ph is set to 5.7 to help steer ph down a tad.

Spry....I will check roots consistency in the morning.

Thanks all for the advice!

 

[spyralout]

KMOG is correct you have a lockout. The plants are leeching water out of the feed water leaving nutes behind and causing PPM to rise. Drain the system about 1/3 of the way then fill it back up with ph'd RO. That should get you back down to the 400-500 PPM range, if not, dilute more accordingly. If your PPM continues to rise and water level is dropping, then your lockout is more severe and you may need to flush for a day or two. Then ease back into the PPM.

 

[KMOG]

Yep, if you’re underfed the fade will be even and gradual and the leaves will get soft/thin. When the leaves look crunchy like that and are yellowing it’s usually lockout due to ph or over feeding.

 

[KMOG]

And don’t add cal mag unless your plants need it. Both macronutrients (micro?) are probably available in your bases.

 

[Rattman]

Really no Calmag?i thought that was required for RO water!?!

I’ll drain 1/3- 1/2 the water and replace with R/O.

Thanks much guys!

Question.....could lowering the Ph .3 and then another .3 the next day be the cause of any stress on the plants? Was that too aggressive?

 

[KMOG]

It’s required if your plants require it.....

 

[Rattman]

Thanks KMOG.... but what symptoms will suggest that I need to add Calmag.

Also... should I be adding silica or hold off on that for now?

 

[spyralout]

Leaves can start showing rusty spots with cal mag deficiency. Plenty ofnpics if you search the interwebs. I haven't had ill effects from just a few tenths of ph adjustment per day. In fact I've gone from 6.4 down to 5.5 and let it climb, but your plants need to be a healthy size and lush if you wanna be that aggressive. Just make sure the water is flowing nicely in the under current. Silica is also ph up. You don't need it every application, only if your stalks seem weak and snap like celery. Alternating between silica and cal mag when topping off the res is a good way to start.
If running LED the plants typically need more cal mag. HPS not as much.
Having a little something in RO as a buffer while flushing will help with wild ph swings. A chelating product such as florakleen or clearex (typically citric acid or other chelate based) can help with breaking the salts binding on the lockout but not always necessary. It seemed to have helped more than just plain RO in my experience.

 

[Rattman]

Yeah I thought that the Calmag was acting as a buffer for the RO water. I’ll definitely look into the products you mentioned.
This hydro growing technique will take a little getting used to.
I really appreciate all of your help spy.....and everyone else for that matter!

 

[Rattman]

48 hour update.... new growth looking better, but still lighter green than should be. Look at the dirt potted northern lights clone I put next to her siblings in the rdwc. Same exact age and she is bigger than the same clones in hydro.

Ppm down under 400.

Tons of air bubbles with the large pump I bought for only 4 plants.

Please take a look at these plants and tell me what you guys are seeing please.

Thank you!!

 

[spyralout]

Keep watching your numbers. They will tell give you a clue, this system moves fast. If PPM keeps climbing, you are still locked out then it's on to full flush.
The bad leaves won't get better, watch the new growth.
What do the worst roots look like? No chiller/UV/Bennies at 70F, might be pushing it a bit, if you have an existing root problem it can be easier for it to spread.

 

[Rattman]

Update.... ladies have improved substantially since the full flush. In the chart I list (in this order) ppm, temp, ph, and # gallons in steering tank. So ppm is finally dropping as plants grow.

Spyralout..... I’m using R/O water that is also UV treated! 2ml hydroguard per gal. No beanies or chiller.... but I’ll get one if I need to. Roots look pretty nice and white in my opinion but I’d appreciate some other opinions please.

At this point Epi is reading ppm 200, temp 70-72, ph 5.7.
Steering tank is reading ppm 330, temp 70, ph 5.7 and girls are starting to drink more water.started at 18 gallons and down to 16.5 after a few weeks post flush.

So from these pics folks..... should I increase ppm yet or just leave it? I’m probably using less than half strength on sense nutes A/B.

I’m going to get my trelllace up soon and probably top these girls in the next week and begin to train into the screen.

ANY advice would be greatly appreciate!

Heisen.... if you are reading this the entire system and strategy based on your tutorial videos... so THANK YOU once again. Those nice plants on the left are also your GG4s seeds.

 

[Bc_ca]

Your dialed in good with your steering Rez. Your plant canopy reflects your root development. Your in balance as the ladies nutrients uptake increases your canopy will broaden expand which again reflects the root growth health. Good job nice plants.

 

[spyralout]

Update.... ladies have improved substantially since the full flush. In the chart I list (in this order) ppm, temp, ph, and # gallons in steering tank. So ppm is finally dropping as plants grow.

Spyralout..... I’m using R/O water that is also UV treated! 2ml hydroguard per gal. No beanies or chiller.... but I’ll get one if I need to. Roots look pretty nice and white in my opinion but I’d appreciate some other opinions please.

At this point Epi is reading ppm 200, temp 70-72, ph 5.7.
Steering tank is reading ppm 330, temp 70, ph 5.7 and girls are starting to drink more water.started at 18 gallons and down to 16.5 after a few weeks post flush.

So from these pics folks..... should I increase ppm yet or just leave it? I’m probably using less than half strength on sense nutes A/B.

I’m going to get my trelllace up soon and probably top these girls in the next week and begin to train into the screen.

ANY advice would be greatly appreciate!

Heisen.... if you are reading this the entire system and strategy based on your tutorial videos... so THANK YOU once again. Those nice plants on the left are also your GG4s seeds.

Roots look good. How many weeks into flower? If your PPM stays steady and ph rises steadily then let it ride especially since you are 130 PPM higher in your res. If you were say, 50 PPM over you can find the sweet spot a bit quicker. At that level, if your PPM drops every day and if it drops harder each day (for example 10 PPM one day then 20 PPM the next) then you know that the plants are taking in nutes at a high rate and you can increase your PPM higher in both res and epi respectively (keeping res a bit higher than epi). Start being careful as you reach 600 PPM especially later in flower or you can risk a lockout.
Looking good