Cloning research

[H.A.F.]

There is some other grow talk before where I copied the URL - it's all good. But here is where they start talking about the paper. The gist is that if you top a plant before taking lots of clones they'll root faster. Once the apical dominance is shot the plant sends hormones and stuff everywhere else looking for a new center. Making the plant produce it's own growth hormones.

 

[pinner420]

14ish days for recovery and redistribution ya figure

 

[Fiddler's Green]

There is some other grow talk before where I copied the URL - it's all good. But here is where they start talking about the paper. The gist is that if you top a plant before taking lots of clones they'll root faster. Once the apical dominance is shot the plant sends hormones and stuff everywhere else looking for a new center. Making the plant produce it's own growth hormones.

I haven't watched yet but that's a cool observation

14ish days for recovery and redistribution ya figure

I wonder if a good time would be when the plant starts pushing out new growth, even if it's sooner than 14 days.

Good post @H.A.F.

 

[pinner420]

Currently at 7 days.. im already to fast for space lol...

 

[H.A.F.]

I haven't watched yet but that's a cool observation


I wonder if a good time would be when the plant starts pushing out new growth, even if it's sooner than 14 days.

Good post @H.A.F.

To be honest, since I'm not "in the industry" I only got through about half of it before I stopped caring about the intricacies. The basic top-level bro-science sounding part of it made sense enough for me to give it a shot. I was thinking less than 7 days actually. I bet the 14 days was when they saw actual new growth at the tips of the parts they were cloning, and then they took them. I think earlier while the hormones are looking for a job would be better, give them the rooting process to concentrate on instead of making new growth at the ends?

This is my take on it based on what I have seen and done, but I have not done much cloning at allcompared to the beans I have dropped.

Tops generally root a little slower than the lower limbs if you clone both at the same time. I have seen the lowers in the 7-day range and the top in the 10-day, just on average in my domes.

That tells me that the process of the hormones actually doing their job of 'root genesis' is already over and they are going back to their day job all over the plant like normal.

I was thinking that my first test would be to top the plant and get that in the dome since my main goal is a keeper clone, not production.
I would take the first two maybe 2-3 days after topping, one low one high. After 2-3 more days take a few more, same spread. Etc.

I would just like to see if there's a noticable difference between when I take the slips and when a root shows through the cube - based on how long after topping I took them.

As a whole I think it would be strain dependent on what plants like what process and you'd have to dial it in as part of your production schedule. For me seeing if it does or doesn't make a difference at all is good enough, along with a rough bro-sciency guestimate of "X" days from topping.

 

[Heisen]

There is some other grow talk before where I copied the URL - it's all good. But here is where they start talking about the paper. The gist is that if you top a plant before taking lots of clones they'll root faster. Once the apical dominance is shot the plant sends hormones and stuff everywhere else looking for a new center. Making the plant produce it's own growth hormones.

Bro science. I've been rooting clones pretty heavy now for over a decade and they root between 6 days to 2 weeks. Never no difference in anything other than the method of rooting them and taking newer growth roots faster. The healthier a plant the faster its growing green stems. Fucked up sick plants have woody stems and take longer to root. I can get clones off seed plants before anything has been cut in 6 days flat. I've gotten roots in 5 days on dwc moms.

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

Nobody should ever ask me for advice on cloning lol. I've been growing for decades and never been any good at it.
I will buy a 36 site mister cloner and it will pop the roots in about 10 days first time using it. And it will be the last time as I won't get roots again. I've got probably 10 of the 36 site misters laying around. I even built some out of totes using net cups. Worked first time and not again.
I could take a 1000 clones and maybe 20 would root.
No clue what it could be. Tried heat, different media, cloning gels, powder, humidity, RO water, bleached water, cool water, warm water, perlite, coco, dirt, scouring the sides, not scouring the sides, full moon, summer solstice, etc etc etc

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

Nobody should ever ask me for advice on cloning lol. I've been growing for decades and never been any good at it.
I will buy a 36 site mister cloner and it will pop the roots in about 10 days first time using it. And it will be the last time as I won't get roots again. I've got probably 10 of the 36 site misters laying around. I even built some out of totes using net cups. Worked first time and not again.
I could take a 1000 clones and maybe 20 would root.
No clue what it could be. Tried heat, different media, cloning gels, powder, humidity, RO water, bleached water, cool water, warm water, perlite, coco, dirt, scouring the sides, not scouring the sides, full moon, summer solstice, etc etc etc

I'm not very good at it either, but I am getting better. I built me a small room out of a closet. I insulated the walls with Styrofoam and it keeps the humidity high. I use a couple hundred watts of T5's, which keeps the temps high enough. So far so good.
I have some old Shultz rooting powder I've had for years and root plugs. That's about it.

 

[H.A.F.]

I think the thing missed is that these two are discussing a scientific research paper on how to grow weed better, that was not done to see how to extract Delta-8 for the gas stations, or how to get 40% THC with this bottle or that cross. It is actually science that can matter on a large or small scale, funded by someone that is not making millions off it, and put out to the public for us to discuss.

The thing lacking in the "industry" is there are no "peers".

Other than empirical evidence from a study that may be misinterpreted because the scientist doesn't grow great weed, who is gonna review it and say "yup, I agree" and it actually matter? Who can review these papers and call out stuff that was missed or done wrong, or with the wrong interpretation of the results? Kevin Jodrey? Jorge Cervantes? Those tools would love the honor but they are scammers to the nth degree.

Who has spent 12+ years in academia getting a degree that matters to the plant - that has also been into weed enough to know what the fuck they are growing? But it's a start. Rather than hearing people say "this is bullshit" we need to be able to tell them why. It's part of the reason Big Ag fails so miserably trying to grow government weed like in Canada. I think the biggest issue I have seen in weed research papers is the initial set-up of the experiment is flawed and leaves out some vital bit of info that we growers spot in a heartbeat.

But I don't care what results and data an experienced grower has gotten over the decades, it ain't science. It's experience and it matters in results, but it does fuck for explaining why or why not about most things. We do what works. We rarely try 10 different things at once with a control crop, all from clone from the same mom, taken at the same time, with enough acreage to actually produce enough data to get good results from.

Oh, and what is the 'control" when there are 1000 ways to grow the plant? What is standard in one grow can fuck up the next experiment in another.

But people are paying real money for real scientists to do studies on weed and looking at actual things that may make a difference in the spreadsheet and cost nothing to do.

 

[1oldfart]

I'm not very good at it either, but I am getting better. I built me a small room out of a closet. I insulated the walls with Styrofoam and it keeps the humidity high. I use a couple hundred watts of T5's, which keeps the temps high enough. So far so good.
I have some old Shultz rooting powder I've had for years and root plugs. That's about it.

full round rabbit hole back to old T5's!

 

[NoWaistedSpace]

I'm only using the T5's for the warmth and the coverage. 20" x 48".
Led's are 3x's better, I'm switching the T5's out real soon.
I am gonna miss the deep green color the plants get under them.
3 clones from one of the contest plants.

 

[Greenthumbskunk]

I'm not very good at it either, but I am getting better. I built me a small room out of a closet. I insulated the walls with Styrofoam and it keeps the humidity high. I use a couple hundred watts of T5's, which keeps the temps high enough. So far so good.
I have some old Shultz rooting powder I've had for years and root plugs. That's about it.

I had also bought a humidifier for the small tent I've used before to clone in. I filled it up 2x per day and the whole inside had water dripping lol

 

[H.A.F.]

I had also bought a humidifier for the small tent I've used before to clone in. I filled it up 2x per day and the whole inside had water dripping lol

Best rig I have made up is a sturdy 1020 tray set over a heat mat to prevent direct contact with the heat and dry burned roots if you don't notice in time. I put the propagator tray and dome on that and make sure it always has water in the bottom to make humidity. Then I put the cloning cube in a separate little cup or tray that is solid on the bottom so it doesn't absorb all that water. It's easy to switch out the water tray with a new one to keep there from being mold issues.

 

[Weedkiller]

I just bought seed mats and found out the hard way they cook seeds, i went back to the top of the cable box lol. Wish I'd read this a few months ago

 

[treefarmercharlie]

I just bought seed mats and found out the hard way they cook seeds, i went back to the top of the cable box lol. Wish I'd read this a few months ago

They work great if you don’t put seeds in direct contact with them. They should be placed under a covered propagation tray, with the seeds in starter pots, and the temp set to around 78°-80° . If you have seeds in paper towels sitting right on the mat they will definitely get too warm.

 

[H.A.F.]

The propagator domes I use have extenders so clone size is never an issue. I have a smaller tent that is just a little bigger than this size dome and it has the heat mat under an upside down tray. This is where they go after they get going.

 

[1oldfart]

I just bought seed mats and found out the hard way they cook seeds, i went back to the top of the cable box lol. Wish I'd read this a few months ago

just pulled that stunt myself!